T-38 v. F-22

It is not unusual for AT-38s acting as bandits to get kills like this on the big fighters.
 
What's the number above the G-load (at the top of the speed tape)? It seemed to be hanging around 0.10 to 0.55.
 
Should come as no surprise seeing as how loose the USAF's pilot standards of gotten

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:sarcasm:
 
Minuteman said:
What's the number above the G-load (at the top of the speed tape)? It seemed to be hanging around 0.10 to 0.55.
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That's the AOA, indexed from 0 (unloaded flight) to 1.0 (stall). If the tape were clearer, you could see the Greek "alpha" symbol just to the left of the number.
 
Orange Anchor said:
...even a blind hog occasionally finds an acorn.

(someone was asleep)
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Yeah, that's the "rest of the story" that this clip doesn't show. How many AT-38s were wasted in the BVR portion of this fight? Where did this bandit regenerate?

I've been able to gun-kill F-15Cs, F-15Es, F-16Cs, etc, in an AT-38....but those kills were all matched 2/3/4 to 1 with times when the blue fighters shot me instead.

The T-38 is a great little bandit: small RCS and visual signature, but it's definitely only good as a "sucker punch". It doesn't say in any way whatsoever that the Raptor is a weak fighter because of it. Hell, people say the F-15 is one of the most successful fighters of all time with it's 100+ to zero air-to-air record, yet I've shot many of them from the front of a little Smurf jet. That's what happens in air-air combat.
 
Hacker15e said:
Yeah, that's the "rest of the story" that this clip doesn't show. How many AT-38s were wasted in the BVR portion of this fight? Where did this bandit regenerate?

I've been able to gun-kill F-15Cs, F-15Es, F-16Cs, etc, in an AT-38....but those kills were all matched 2/3/4 to 1 with times when the blue fighters shot me instead.

The T-38 is a great little bandit: small RCS and visual signature, but it's definitely only good as a "sucker punch". It doesn't say in any way whatsoever that the Raptor is a weak fighter because of it. Hell, people say the F-15 is one of the most successful fighters of all time with it's 100+ to zero air-to-air record, yet I've shot many of them from the front of a little Smurf jet. That's what happens in air-air combat.
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I know how you feel - I shot down a KC-135 on final to Macdill the other day. :D
 
Murdoughnut said:
Should come as no surprise seeing as how loose the USAF's pilot standards of gotten

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:sarcasm:
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ROFL I hope that makes it to their 1st tour unit!
 
Hacker15e said:
The T-38 is a great little bandit: small RCS and visual signature, but it's definitely only good as a "sucker punch".
Click to expand...

One of my old F/Os flew the A-4 in an aggressor and said he loved beating up on new guys in F-14s. And I can't remember which Ace it was that said essentially 'the one that gets you is the one you never see." He also said he was not that good but that he just flew behind his adversary, shoved the guns up the other guy's ass and pulled the trigger. :D
 
Murdoughnut said:
Should come as no surprise seeing as how loose the USAF's pilot standards of gotten
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I just realized.. this is a D-Class. D-class was made up in my training of the guys who graduated early or late. It was VERY eclectic with guys having majors in econ, engineering, music, religion, English lit, etc. Very varied in background.

And yes, 40 yrs and light years difference.

(69-04 Dust Devils Webb AFB)
 
Orange Anchor]...even a blind hog occasionally finds an acorn. (someone was asleep) [/quote] Are you making fun of my A-10!!! :D:D (just kidding) [QUOTE=Orange Anchor said:
(69-04 Dust Devils Webb AFB)
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Good old Big Spring, TX. They're got a neat museum there now in the old Hangar 25 (called the Hangar 25 museum ironically). Have some display planes, including the T-37 and the T-33B that were formerly on display at the old Williams AFB until Willie closed; as well as other memoribilia. Old tower is still there, and the majority of the field is a prison.

Hacker15e said:
I've been able to gun-kill F-15Cs, F-15Es, F-16Cs, etc, in an AT-38....but those kills were all matched 2/3/4 to 1 with times when the blue fighters shot me instead.

The T-38 is a great little bandit: small RCS and visual signature, but it's definitely only good as a "sucker punch". It doesn't say in any way whatsoever that the Raptor is a weak fighter because of it. Hell, people say the F-15 is one of the most successful fighters of all time with it's 100+ to zero air-to-air record, yet I've shot many of them from the front of a little Smurf jet. That's what happens in air-air combat.
Click to expand...

Was same in the A-10......we could hold our own (WVR) if someone fought us our way, not their way. Especially with the light-gray 15s, some of the young guys come in with the "we're just here to Hog pop" idea, that when the time comes to it; you see who's who. Again, BVR aside, if we get into the dissimilar fight with them, circle the wagons, then get the guy that drops off the perch and wants to mix it up with us in the horizontal because he has the thrust-weight....bring it. Its the guy that sits up and hawks the fight thats now the "oh crap.....he knows what he's doing, and he's doing it well".

The best guys I fought air-air (which we didn't do a hell of a lot of in the Hog) were the USMCR F-5s of VMFT-401 out of KNYL. Damn good at what they do, excellent tactics, and killed us every time. Even more interesting since they have short legs (no air/air refueling), a limited radar, and just carry heaters/gun.
 
MikeD said:
Good old Big Spring, TX. They're got a neat museum there now in the old Hangar 25 (called the Hangar 25 museum ironically). Have some display planes, including the T-37 and the T-33B that were formerly on display at the old Williams AFB until Willie closed; as well as other memoribilia. Old tower is still there, and the majority of the field is a prison.
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Yep. Went by Webb a few years ago and it was actually a sad sight. The O Club was a senior citizen center and although I tried to find the equivalent, there was no "ANY 2ND LT" stencil in the parking lot. The squadron buildings were part of the fed prison and the base housing was low-income.

I used to say that the only thing that changed when it went from a UPT base to a prison was the uniforms.. residents were miscreants, rascals and sometimes rogues. But the truth was a stark difference. As a UPT base, it was the environment where dreams were realized. As a prison, it was where there were probably few dreams.

I think we started with about 80 and graduated about 60. Within 4 months, we had lost our first guy. He was not the last.


Funny thing to about the museum. It housed a Harrier. Maybe it was a salute to the Marines we had come through with us.
 
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