t-38 guys

Prino

Well-Known Member
Im going on a flight in one of these a/c. any tips or advice? i know its capable of exceeding the sound barrier but whats the likelihood of it happening?

another thing just came to mind. the paper says that im only cleared for flight up to 18,000. whats the purpose of this?
 
Im going on a flight in one of these a/c. any tips or advice? i know its capable of exceeding the sound barrier but whats the likelihood of it happening?

another thing just came to mind. the paper says that im only cleared for flight up to 18,000. whats the purpose of this?

First off, is it a civilian or military '38? Where will you be flying?

Highly unlikely that you'll be going supersonic, as that requires specific airspace and agreements with the FAA, and to the best of my knowledge all of the USAF training bases let their LOAs lapse when the supersonic ride was dropped from the SUPT syllabus. If you're flying out of one of the ACC bases (Beale, Holloman, Whiteman), they may have some range airspace to do it in. My advice: don't even bother. It's completely anticlimactic, and except just to say you've done it, it's a complete waste of fuel in an all-ready fuel limited aircraft.

The 18K limitation is because you haven't been to the altitude chamber. The rationale is if there is some kind of depressurization up there, you won't know how to take care of yourself properly. Don't fret -- there's plenty of fun to be had below 18K in the Talon.

The two things I most frequently with incentive riders in the T-38: canopy operation problems and getting sick. The mechanism for raising and lowering the canopy has not aged gracefully, so today it requires two hands in an orchestrated sequence to accomplish. Make sure you PRACTICE lowering and locking the lid while you are in the chocks -- you won't want to get stuck at the end of the runway before takeoff and not be able to get the lid closed (very embarassing!).

Second, for folks not used to the roll rate and G that the Talon produces, there's a high potential for airsickness. Standard airsickness rules apply: light food before flying, stay hydrated, and have puke bags out of the package and easily accessible (I recommend shoving them under the thigh portion of your G-suit). There's a big air vent near your right knee -- know how to open, close, and aim that vent in flight. Aim it at your upper chest/neck for best cooling, as there are no other air conditioning vents anywhere in the cockpit. Keeping cool will help you feel better, as will flying the airplane whenever the pilot gives you the chance. As usual, if you feel sick, just puke and get it over, as you'll feel tons better afterward.

What kind of flight is it? If it's single ship, make sure you do aerobatics, including demonstrating the roll rate and some 6+G sustained turns. If it's formation, get as much hands-on stick time as possible in formation, keep a light grip on the stick, and wiggle your fingers and toes so as to not tense up.

Most of all, RELAX and ENJOY it.
 
it will be a single ship military flight out of vance. any suggestions as to how i should prepare for the high G's?
 
Relax and have fun. You know the puke part, it will likely be better to puke and get over it as suggested. Im at Columubs AFB working on the T-6 sims and I went up in a T-6 and was sick for 3 days! But make no mistake it was a blast. If you start feeling sick open up the flight suite some and get some air in there. I took my mask off as I was sweating pretty bad but I was told to flip the oxygen switch to max and I actually felt a little better. But I should have just puked and got over it. We did acro's, and some sight seeing. I got to fly it around for a little while to. Its amazing so have fun! As for eating, I would just eat some crackers and water! I ate a foot long sub whith chips like an hour before...not good! I never puked though!
 
PM me the where and when details...I am a Vance T-38 IP.

Hacker, do me a favor! Go wave at 1251 Hurst Dr, on base. I lived there when I was a 38 IP from 81-84.

Isn't the reason they droped the boom ride because of the intake mod on the /C model ? No more supersonic flow into the intake possible?
 
Isn't the reason they droped the boom ride because of the intake mod on the /C model ? No more supersonic flow into the intake possible?

Popular misconception, but not true.

The ride was dropped for pure economics' sake -- the syllabus underwent a reorganization that massively beefed up the formation block and slashed a bunch of odds and ends sorties to keep the overall hours in the syllabus the same. The "zoom and boom" was widely known for not adding much to training, besides verifying that, yes, the needle does jump when you go through The Number, and that's about it. That flight hour is now one of the 14 rides (!) dedicated to Tactical Formation.

The fat lip intake on the PMP modification does add a lot of drag, making it tougher to get supersonic, but it's not that there's an issue with engine airflow or that the jet is not capable of getting there -- it just takes more coaxing and more gas than the non-PMP jet did to get it supersonic. The fine residents of Enid can verify that the jet can safely make it through The Number thanks to students who don't watch the Mach Meter anymore!

ka-boom!
 
any suggestions as to how i should prepare for the high G's?

They should teach you how to perform the Anti-G Straining Maneuver during your time with the flight doc before the sortie. Pay attention and practice!

The reality is, you shouldn't be doing a whole lot of sustained G unless you specifically ask for it. Based on the airspace there at Vance, you can lay on about a 6G turn for a minute or so of constant turn until you run out of altitude (depends on fuel weight, etc)...might be interesting just to say you have, but will burn a crapload of fuel.

I recommend for best bang for your buck, you have the instructor take you out and first just let you fly the airplane through some typical climbs, descents, and turns, so you can get a feel for how the thing flies (which will be very different than what you probably have experience in). Then have him do some typical acro, although with the 18K limitation you may not be able to loop (the jet, no kidding, takes 10K to safely loop...and the bottom of the MOA is 10,000'). After the acro, see if you can put on a couple high G turns, and then maybe a stall sequence. After that -- about 30 minutes of MOA time -- it will likely be time to come on back. Go beat up the pattern, see what the overhead pattern is like and what the landing picture is (as it is also quite different than what you're used to, I'm sure).

After all that, report back up here on how it went!
 
1st, let me say that I'm a little jealous. I'd love to get up in a 38. But, I wish you a great ride and hope you have a total blast.

Here is my question tho. There are private sector T-38's? I've heard that Ross Perot son actually owned one and had it painted in the old Thunderbird paint scheme, but didn't know if that was ficton or truth. And, if you can purchase these aircraft, how? What type of training or certs do you have to get to own and fly a T-38? Seems like a lot of training and red tape to have to cut through.

I have a feeling that I'm going to win the Lotto this weekend. If that is the case, I'm buying 2 of them and I want them, "Out of the Box", ready to go. Mike, Hack, you guys give flying lessons? I'll have tons of money to pay you for your time! ;)

Oops, reality just check back in to my head. :(
 
1st, let me say that I'm a little jealous. I'd love to get up in a 38. But, I wish you a great ride and hope you have a total blast.

Here is my question tho. There are private sector T-38's? I've heard that Ross Perot son actually owned one and had it painted in the old Thunderbird paint scheme, but didn't know if that was ficton or truth. And, if you can purchase these aircraft, how? What type of training or certs do you have to get to own and fly a T-38? Seems like a lot of training and red tape to have to cut through.

There was one owned by C Thornton and based out of VNY that I remember. Was built from 3 wrecks IIRC. In fact, it was featured in the 1987 movie Dragnet, starring Tom Hanks and Dan Ackroyd. He also has a couple of F-5s. You can't really purchase them from the govt, since they won't release them whole. Training-wise, you'd have to get an LOA from the FAA to fly one, since there's no type rating for it. And it'd likely have to be license in the experimental category.

I have a feeling that I'm going to win the Lotto this weekend. If that is the case, I'm buying 2 of them and I want them, "Out of the Box", ready to go. Mike, Hack, you guys give flying lessons? I'll have tons of money to pay you for your time! ;)

Oops, reality just check back in to my head. :(

All my time is in the A and B models of the -38. But I suppose the chances of buying a C model is slim.....:D

But yeah, my last flight wasn't but 4 years ago. But the -38 is like riding a bike.....simple and easy to remember.

My last T-38 below. Btw, so far as CTP T-38s go, the Holloman -38s in the gloss black and silver letters/numbers and F-117 tail icons are WAY sexier than the drab looking Beale -38s with their flat black and red letters/numbers and iron crosses tail icons.
 

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Here is my question tho. There are private sector T-38's? I've heard that Ross Perot son actually owned one and had it painted in the old Thunderbird paint scheme, but didn't know if that was ficton or truth. And, if you can purchase these aircraft, how? What type of training or certs do you have to get to own and fly a T-38? Seems like a lot of training and red tape to have to cut through.

As Daff mentioned, Chuck Thornton has rebuilt several of them (http://www.thorntonaircraft.com/body/body.cfm?page_name=mil), and there are also a couple in service with Boeing as chase planes.

They can't be purchased from the US Gov't, but they can be imported from foreign countries, and several have used them for military training over the years. As for training, the T-38 is one of the aircraft that requires an Experimental Type Rating (c'mon, MikeD! LOAs are so 2004!).

Mike, Hack, you guys give flying lessons? I'll have tons of money to pay you for your time!

Strangely enough, that's what I do for a living...in that very aircraft!
 
What, nobody wants to fly the clown jet :cwm27: We've got Horny down here as an IP...he was a former T-38 and U-2 guy. Just the other day we tried to get him to admit the 45 was the better bird...he didn't admit it. The T-38 is one sweet looking plane, would love to fly it. Lets do a swap, I'll go up there for a ride, somebody come down her for a clown jet ride!!!
 
G-Strain...6 is probably not going to knock you on your ass. Get a good preparatory breath and then just keep your legs/abs flexed. Don't use excessive brain bits working on the 3 second breathing cycle.

Sheppard is still doing zoom and booms. Still the only time I've been supersonic...

Don't talk more than you have to. UPT is a hostile environment. Also, don't tell anyone you're a sooner type guy. It's gay.
 
What, nobody wants to fly the clown jet :cwm27: We've got Horny down here as an IP...he was a former T-38 and U-2 guy. Just the other day we tried to get him to admit the 45 was the better bird...he didn't admit it. The T-38 is one sweet looking plane, would love to fly it. Lets do a swap, I'll go up there for a ride, somebody come down her for a clown jet ride!!!

I was considering trying to get to Kingsville or Meridian for an exchange tour next, but I don't think it'll happen for a multitude of reasons.
 
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