SWA and SWA FA sued over spilled hot tea

So what would you have been happy with? Where should your seniority have fallen? Would you give back the pay increase and any other bennies you acquired if you got your seniority? Will you ever be happy unless management gives you a blank check to choose your terms and conditions?
 
pullup said:
So what would you have been happy with?
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Whatever an impartial arbitrator would have determined was appropriate.

Where should your seniority have fallen?
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I'm around the 75% mark on the AirTran list. I ended up at 92% on the combined list. Sound fair to you?

Would you give back the pay increase and any other bennies you acquired if you got your seniority?
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Hell, I'd gladly take a pay cut to get my seniority back.

Will you ever be happy unless management gives you a blank check to choose your terms and conditions?
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Like I said, I never wanted to choose terms and conditions. I just wanted an impartial neutral to make the decision. That's how these things should be done.
 
MikeD said:
Everyone requires personal responsibility. If the pax knows there are no tray tables, then they need to be extra careful in not spilling something hot as hell, or not ordering it at all. Its not like it was a secret to that passenger that there was no tray table, or somehow SWA was hiding that fact from her.
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I'm not commenting on the rest of the case but...many passengers don't try to use the tray till they are being served. It is possible that someone would not know there were no tray tables until they were served. I've been served coffee in double cups with the rest of the stuff separate. I haven't ordered tea, so I don't know for sure. I'll bet SWA gives more specific serving instructions for those in the bulkhead seats.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Whatever an impartial arbitrator would have determined was appropriate.



I'm around the 75% mark on the AirTran list. I ended up at 92% on the combined list. Sound fair to you?



Hell, I'd gladly take a pay cut to get my seniority back.



Like I said, I never wanted to choose terms and conditions. I just wanted an impartial neutral to make the decision. That's how these things should be done.
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What if an arbitrator gave you the exact same terms and conditions? I don't know if 92% is fair, I don't know if the buying company is given a weighting factor or not. Was this a sale of an airline or a merger and are there any differences?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Mike, we had the ability to procede to arbitration and have the arbitrator decide what the seniority integration would have been. The implied threat from SWA management was that we wouldn't be merged if we did that, but of course, that wouldn't be contractual or legal.
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Waitasec. I don't quite understand the bolded part.

Are you saying that you perceived an implied, but illegal threat from SWA, so you accepted a less-than-ideal offer, even though you thought the threat in question was definitely illegal?
 
pullup said:
What if an arbitrator gave you the exact same terms and conditions?
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I wouldn't like it, but I could accept it if a neutral made that decision after reviewing all of the facts. Having it forced on us with a gun held to our heads is far different.

I don't know if 92% is fair, I don't know if the buying company is given a weighting factor or not. Was this a sale of an airline or a merger and are there any differences?
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As far as merger language and McCaskill-Bond are concerned, it doesn't make any difference. Every merger is really an acquisition. There has to be an acquiring carrier. For example, Delta acquired NWA, even though it was a merger.
 
killbilly said:
Waitasec. I don't quite understand the bolded part.

Are you saying that you perceived an implied, but illegal threat from SWA, so you accepted a less-than-ideal offer, even though you thought the threat in question was definitely illegal?
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No, I didn't. But the pilot group did. I voted against it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Mike, there are many legal protections for airline employees in a merger. For starters, there is our labor contracts. Our CBA contains a long list of merger protections. In addition, after the TWA/AMR debacle, Senators McCaskill and Bond got legislation through Congress which was signed by the president that provided statutory protection for employees involved in mergers, to prevent another fiasco like what happened to the TWA pilots. Of course, those protections have to be enforced, so if your MEC or pilot group is so scared of their own shadow that they won't fight to defend themselves, then all of the protections in the world won't help.
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Isn't this really your issue? I find it interesting that it's either some boardroom deep-rooted plan to destroy everyones' lives or it's a poor or lack of quality representation FOR WHICH YOU PAY. So, who is really to be blamed here?
 
dustoff17 said:
Isn't this really your issue? I find it interesting that it's either some boardroom deep-rooted plan to destroy everyones' lives or it's a poor or lack of quality representation FOR WHICH YOU PAY. So, who is really to be blamed here?
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Like I said, both. Management should have stayed the hell out of a seniority dispute, and the pilots should have stood up for themselves.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Like I said, both. Management should have stayed the hell out of a seniority dispute, and the pilots should have stood up for themselves.
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Why is it that union members continue to follow (and pay) for leadership that leads them down a path they don't want? Like the Air Traffic Controls of the past, you can't blame the union.......blame the members.
 
dustoff17 said:
Why is it that union members continue to follow (and pay) for leadership that leads them down a path they don't want? Like the Air Traffic Controls of the past, you can't blame the union.......blame the members.
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I'm not really sure what your point is. Union leaders are elected by the members. A union is not a nebulous entity that dictates direction from on high. It's simply a group of people elected by their peers to do a job. Sometimes the members choose wisely and elect good leaders, and sometimes they choose poorly.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm not really sure what your point is. Union leaders are elected by the members. A union is not a nebulous entity that dictates direction from on high. It's simply a group of people elected by their peers to do a job. Sometimes the members choose wisely and elect good leaders, and sometimes they choose poorly.
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This is a "poorly" phase. So you and the other pilots happy with your representation prior to the merger? My sympathy
 
2nd degree burns my butt... Even if the warmers or coffee makers actually brought the water to a boil and it was boiling when it was poured in the lady's cup it would have cooled enough before reaching her that it couldn't have cause blistering skin... That's not to say it wouldn't have hurt but even with direct contact I doubt blistering and peeling would have resulted...


On a side note... Blistering skin in the "groin" area. Pictures or it didn't happen.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
2nd degree burns my butt... Even if the warmers or coffee makers actually brought the water to a boil and it was boiling when it was poured in the lady's cup it would have cooled enough before reaching her that it couldn't have cause blistering skin... That's not to say it wouldn't have hurt but even with direct contact I doubt blistering and peeling would have resulted...


On a side note... Blistering skin in the "groin" area. Pictures or it didn't happen.
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Interesting information from the Burn Foundation (source: http://www.burnfoundation.org/programs/resource.cfm?c=1&a=3)

Hot Water Causes Third Degree Burns…
…in 1 second at 156º
…in 2 seconds at 149º
…in 5 seconds at 140º
…in 15 seconds at 133º.
 
SteveCostello said:
Interesting information from the Burn Foundation (source: http://www.burnfoundation.org/programs/resource.cfm?c=1&a=3)

Hot Water Causes Third Degree Burns……in 1 second at 156º
…in 2 seconds at 149º
…in 5 seconds at 140º
…in 15 seconds at 133º.
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The use of facts is an obvious internet foul.

best_of_the_nfl_replacement_refs_meme-152531.jpg
 
That meme is getting SO much usage...

It's as good as the Mikayla Maroney "is not impressed" meme!
 
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