Sun Country chooses PDX for it's second base

Wait, didn’t they go bankrupt last year and leave passengers stranded in Mexico? Or was that someone else?

They cancelled the last flights of the season due to weather in the Midwest then told the passengers in Mexico they were on their own to get back to the US. Apparently they had zero slack between winter flights to Mexico and their summer schedule and allegedly refused to do anything other than give people refunds.
 
Wait, didn’t they go bankrupt last year and leave passengers stranded in Mexico? Or was that someone else?

They were around for a long time and had a pretty solid reputation in Minnesota and I believe were actually started by pilots of all people in the 80s, but recently got bought out by some private company that wanted to turn them into an Allegiant or Spirit. I was really surprised by how crappy that was for their customers and how far they'd fallen, but thats the ULCC business model these days unfortunately and it's always a gamble for the pax buying tickets on their planes. I knew some of their pilots who were great people and it's a shame to see their owners make the switch, but I like to think maybe they'll return to some of their old ways. I was a bit surprised they'd go into Alaska's back yard and wonder what sense that made for them to choose PDX as it didn't seem underserved.
 
They cancelled the last flights of the season due to weather in the Midwest then told the passengers in Mexico they were on their own to get back to the US. Apparently they had zero slack between winter flights to Mexico and their summer schedule and allegedly refused to do anything other than give people refunds.
Yep, this is the new Sun Country. But it is also the ULCC model. I'd wager that Allegiant would do the same, WOW Air and Norweigan are known for this, also. ULCC's almost never even have the capacity in their reservations systems to book you on another airline, so if anything happens to their flight, which may not be daily, you're screwed with a refund, best case of course.

Sun Country was my favorite airline for many years, I've flown on them a few dozen times to/from MSP over the years and had actually built enough miles for a free roundtrip despite flying only them at a pace of about 1-2x per year usually. I held onto the ticket for a few years, then got an e-mail the other day that I'd have to fly Sun Country in 30 days or lose my miles. OK, better go to MSP. Turns out that in favor of flying SFO-PSP/PDX, SFO-MSP was suspended for the month. OK, I guess I'll use my miles. Welp, Sun Country changed their miles to count for cash, not a full ticket once a target is hit. So now I have about $80 in Sun Country credit(that expires very soon) instead of a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48. Great.

Between the bad press from the Star Tribune and my favorite domestic first class(with cheap upgrades, huge comfy seats, flowing liquor, and ridiculous portions of cholesterol laden Midwest cuisine) going away, I don't think I'll be flying Sun Country much anymore. At least after the cabin retrofits are done. Damn shame, they had a perfect niche and I think this deviation from that model will be the death of Sun Country. They've lost the people of Minneasota, and try as they may to expand, Sun Country will never recover from that. Not to mention that they unveiled a revised livery and started painting planes for 3 years until deciding to paint the planes again to look like Tide Pods. These erratic decisions are probably a bad sign.
 
Yep, this is the new Sun Country. But it is also the ULCC model. I'd wager that Allegiant would do the same, WOW Air and Norweigan are known for this, also. ULCC's almost never even have the capacity in their reservations systems to book you on another airline, so if anything happens to their flight, which may not be daily, you're screwed with a refund, best case of course.

Sun Country was my favorite airline for many years, I've flown on them a few dozen times to/from MSP over the years and had actually built enough miles for a free roundtrip despite flying only them at a pace of about 1-2x per year usually. I held onto the ticket for a few years, then got an e-mail the other day that I'd have to fly Sun Country in 30 days or lose my miles. OK, better go to MSP. Turns out that in favor of flying SFO-PSP/PDX, SFO-MSP was suspended for the month. OK, I guess I'll use my miles. Welp, Sun Country changed their miles to count for cash, not a full ticket once a target is hit. So now I have about $80 in Sun Country credit(that expires very soon) instead of a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48. Great.

Between the bad press from the Star Tribune and my favorite domestic first class(with cheap upgrades, huge comfy seats, flowing liquor, and ridiculous portions of cholesterol laden Midwest cuisine) going away, I don't think I'll be flying Sun Country much anymore. At least after the cabin retrofits are done. Damn shame, they had a perfect niche and I think this deviation from that model will be the death of Sun Country. They've lost the people of Minneasota, and try as they may to expand, Sun Country will never recover from that. Not to mention that they unveiled a revised livery and started painting planes for 3 years until deciding to paint the planes again to look like Tide Pods. These erratic decisions are probably a bad sign.

I know they had a strong, loyal following in the MSP area, but their previous niche really wasn’t working. They were barely profitable after 2014 when fuel prices tanked - compared to everyone else who started generating significantly higher profits. Simply put, they were not generating enough of a fare premium to offset the higher cost of their product offering. JetBlue has historically faced similar problems and that’s what led to their densification project announced in 2014 as well.

It’s difficult to speak in absolutes, but I am far more confident in the long-term viability of this Sun Country than the old Sun Country.
 
I know they had a strong, loyal following in the MSP area, but their previous niche really wasn’t working. They were barely profitable after 2014 when fuel prices tanked - compared to everyone else who started generating significantly higher profits. Simply put, they were not generating enough of a fare premium to offset the higher cost of their product offering. JetBlue has historically faced similar problems and that’s what led to their densification project announced in 2014 as well.

It’s difficult to speak in absolutes, but I am far more confident in the long-term viability of this Sun Country than the old Sun Country.
That is all true but this was a change to the extreme, and Sun Country is far less known than Frontier, Allegiant, and Spirit. Really, I think Sun Country's biggest mistake(other than throwing the finger to their loyal flyers for the last 40 years who chose them over freggin Delta often) was refusing to allow seamless MSP connections until a few years ago. I know their MSP hub model was geared mostly at getting people out of MSP and then back home, but SFO-MSP could have been marketed as SFO-SXM/LGA/RSW/SJO ect. But instead, one would have to buy 2 tickets, re-check the bags, re-clear TSA(assuming there were bags to check/claim), and have no protection in the event of a misconnect. Firing all station managers, outsourcing almost everything to the lowest bidder, and going from great comfort/service at a cheap price to almost no comfort/service for a slightly cheaper price. And they chose to get into the West Coast blood bath where Southwest, United, and Alaska are all dumping frequencies and slashing fares on routes out of PDX, LAS, SFO, ect that Sun Country has decided to start serving. All the other airlines have to do is price match Sun Country and there is no reason for the average West Coast pax to choose them over the majors. You're entitled to your opinion, mine is unfortunately that we won't have Sun Country 10 years from now, be it by merger, take over, or bankruptcy. Hopefully I'm mistaken, but seeing as Sun Country got rid of just about everything "Sun Country", from First Class to the employees themselves, and that on many routes like SFO-MSP Delta has already price matched with much more to offer, I don't see a happy ending here. And I love happy endings.
 
No way. I'm applying at Sun Country tomorrow in anticipation of the Delta takeover. I heard that I'll have better seniority that way versus getting hired at Delta directly.
 
AS buys Sun Country.


You heard it here first! :D
Given the past between DL/AS and the monopoly DL has at MSP, I'd laugh so hard I'd probably pee if that happens. It would be the business equivalent of this:
giphy.gif
 
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Given the past between DL/AS and the monopoly DL has at MSP, I'd laugh so hard I'd probably pee if that happens. It would be the business equivalent of this:
giphy.gif

It makes you wonder if that's why Sun Country chose PDX so that they forced Alaska into buying them out rather than compete in their backyard as otherwise I think it doesn't make much sense. Still airline pricing is obsurd and anti-competitive. I had a co-worker flying out east from Anchorage in late spring/early summer and his ticket would have been $200 cheaper than mine, both on Delta even though I was within 400 nm of the destination I was flying to and he was just under 3000nm. I'd worked with him before and he flew from ANC to Vegas much cheaper than I did there or any of my co-workers were able to fly home a state away. The mainlines are such massive airlines now that they can just run so much of their competition into the ground without effecting their overall profitability all that much.
 
Interesting interview with the CEO from a few months ago that touches very briefly on PDX and the relative lack of ULCCs in that market, plus the need to expand outside of MSP.


It makes you wonder how that situation in Mexico ever happened, but hopefully someone got fired for that or they at least learned their lesson.

Q | Northwest used to compete very aggressively with small carriers to keep market share. Does Delta pay that kind of attention?
A | Oh, they do. Part of our strategy is to say, ‘We don’t want to threaten your business.’ By the way, they run a fantastic operation. Great technology. They have an amazing loyalty program. And they’re gigantic. Where’s the place for us, then, because we can’t win the corporate client, we can’t win on product? We can win the leisure customer who doesn’t want to put up with Spirit and Frontier. Who doesn’t want to get cancelled on, doesn’t want to sit in the fetal position, who doesn’t want to pay for a soft drink. It’s a hassle. There’s 4.6 million people 90 minutes from this airport. I think we can win ’em.
 
Any other thoughts? I'd like to bump this thread as I have an interest in Sun Country and there isn't much on JC regarding the airline. The article was interesting and seem to paint a realistic picture, not the usual recruiting BS. Whether that market plan pans out in the end is anybody's guess.

I'd also like to believe that Sun Country has a good chance of getting a better contract when it comes time, in light of what has happened at Frontier and Spirit.
 
Any other thoughts? I'd like to bump this thread as I have an interest in Sun Country and there isn't much on JC regarding the airline. The article was interesting and seem to paint a realistic picture, not the usual recruiting BS. Whether that market plan pans out in the end is anybody's guess.

I'd also like to believe that Sun Country has a good chance of getting a better contract when it comes time, in light of what has happened at Frontier and Spirit.
Honestly? I have a good buddy who went there after many years of 135/91. He loves it. He’s someone whose opinion I respect too.
 
Yep, this is the new Sun Country. But it is also the ULCC model. I'd wager that Allegiant would do the same, WOW Air and Norweigan are known for this, also. ULCC's almost never even have the capacity in their reservations systems to book you on another airline, so if anything happens to their flight, which may not be daily, you're screwed with a refund, best case of course.

Sun Country was my favorite airline for many years, I've flown on them a few dozen times to/from MSP over the years and had actually built enough miles for a free roundtrip despite flying only them at a pace of about 1-2x per year usually. I held onto the ticket for a few years, then got an e-mail the other day that I'd have to fly Sun Country in 30 days or lose my miles. OK, better go to MSP. Turns out that in favor of flying SFO-PSP/PDX, SFO-MSP was suspended for the month. OK, I guess I'll use my miles. Welp, Sun Country changed their miles to count for cash, not a full ticket once a target is hit. So now I have about $80 in Sun Country credit(that expires very soon) instead of a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48. Great.

Between the bad press from the Star Tribune and my favorite domestic first class(with cheap upgrades, huge comfy seats, flowing liquor, and ridiculous portions of cholesterol laden Midwest cuisine) going away, I don't think I'll be flying Sun Country much anymore. At least after the cabin retrofits are done. Damn shame, they had a perfect niche and I think this deviation from that model will be the death of Sun Country. They've lost the people of Minneasota, and try as they may to expand, Sun Country will never recover from that. Not to mention that they unveiled a revised livery and started painting planes for 3 years until deciding to paint the planes again to look like Tide Pods. These erratic decisions are probably a bad sign.
They were just like Midwest with their niche market. But Midwest had the warm cookies.
 
They were just like Midwest with their niche market. But Midwest had the warm cookies.
And we saw how the sale/low-cost model worked for Midwest.

Any other thoughts? I'd like to bump this thread as I have an interest in Sun Country and there isn't much on JC regarding the airline. The article was interesting and seem to paint a realistic picture, not the usual recruiting BS. Whether that market plan pans out in the end is anybody's guess.

I'd also like to believe that Sun Country has a good chance of getting a better contract when it comes time, in light of what has happened at Frontier and Spirit.
1 perk is they are expanding fast, and with the low pay, many will leave after upgrade I'm sure. The flying is cool, Sun Country has always had a diverse route network with focus cities in DFW, LAS, and others and a ton of point-to-point routes. There are also a lot of charters, from USA-Mexico/Hawaii to Europe, Asia, and even Africa believe it or not. Also, I'd give it a high chance that if Sun Country succeeds, Alaska or some other major will be interested, and flying there could be a fast track to a major. Sun Country stayed independent so long by basically staying off the major's toes(not offering connections in MSP until recently meant they really were not much of a threat to NW/DL even flying the same routes technically). Now they are on the radar.

Used to be a heavily Minnesotan pilot group, it was rare until the last few years to hear a non-Midwest accent on the radio from an SY plane. Now, it seems to be a big melting pot like everywhere else. Even some foreign pilots with thick accents these days.
 
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And we saw how the sale/low-cost model worked for Midwest.


1 perk is they are expanding fast, and with the low pay, many will leave after upgrade I'm sure. The flying is cool, Sun Country has always had a diverse route network with focus cities in DFW, LAS, and others and a ton of point-to-point routes. There are also a lot of charters, from USA-Mexico/Hawaii to Europe, Asia, and even Africa believe it or not. Also, I'd give it a high chance that if Sun Country succeeds, Alaska or some other major will be interested, and flying there could be a fast track to a major. Sun Country stayed independent so long by basically staying off the major's toes(not offering connections in MSP until recently meant they really were not much of a threat to NW/DL even flying the same routes technically). Now they are on the radar.

Used to be a heavily Minnesotan pilot group, it was rare until the last few years to hear a non-Midwest accent on the radio from an SY plane. Now, it seems to be a big melting pot like everywhere else. Even some foreign pilots with thick accents these days.
I think what Midwest had working heavily against them was they chose their base as MKE. No matter how many analysis reports you run to justify MKE being able to support a national LLC, it just wont work. Skybus is another example of that. Thanks Obama!
 
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