Summary of Capt. John Prater message to SKYW pilots

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Reprisal, in differnt forms due to not having union protection. But then you knew that!

:)
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I've been down the road that the Colgan pilots are going down and they'll be just fine.

I was a huge loudmouth at Skyway during our union drive, had a pilot group 25% of that size and had no threat or reprisal.

Labor attorneys live for situations like this.

If you think they got voracious when "an academy down in FL" went after me, just wait to see what type of fun they'd have with someone trying to use threats of employment action against the Colganites. Yes, they were giddy and excited because they're hella scrappy.
 
I'm going to laugh if Colgan gets ALPA on the property before SkyWest.:D :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
Omar, how's the ALPA drive going for you guys? I hope you guys can get it going. I think that would help the ASA guys out a lot. Management will have a much much smaller carrot to dangle on both sides with ALPA at both carriers.
 
Personal suggestion only, but if I worked for Colgan OR Skywest, I'd open up negotiations tomorrow and start asking for the world.

When a company is trying to fend off a union, they'll start throwing perks, benefits and money around like it's going out of style.

Case in point, check out a "major ATL-based airline" and what happens when the flight attendants start talking about joining the AFA. Raises, benefit increases, nicer hotels, road shows, parties, meet 'n greets with food in the IFS lounge, et al.
 
The organizing effort is going well. We have about 42% of the cards returned. We want to see about 70% before petitioning the NMB.
 
GaTechKid said:
I doubt it, but long breaks in the day don't really make up any of the reasons I can think of for having union protection.
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In a survey ALPA conducted, the majority no votes were from pilots that had 0 months to 2 years seniority with the company. AFter 2 years, the majority of pilots significantly turned their votes to yes. Do you ever wonder why that is?

Just out of curiousity, how long have you been here?
 
This statement goes out to the fence sitters and anti-union guys out there:

I don't want to hear what ALPA can do for you or why should you pick ALPA. How about you telling me why ALPA should pick you as a member?

What do you stand for? What do you beleive in? Should pilots have rights? Should we have the right to a decent wage to support our families? Should we have a right to proper safety considerations?

And if you don't think that ALPA will be picking you someday, your sorely mistaken. Someday, you will be sitting at the table of a major airline that is represented by one union or another. You won't be picking ALPA at that point. ALPA will be picking you!
 
mrivc211 said:
This statement goes out to the fence sitters and anti-union guys out there:

I don't want to hear what ALPA can do for you or why should you pick ALPA. How about you telling me why ALPA should pick you as a member?

What do you stand for? What do you beleive in? Should pilots have rights? Should we have the right to a decent wage to support our families? Should we have a right to proper safety considerations?

And if you don't think that ALPA will be picking you someday, your sorely mistaken. Someday, you will be sitting at the table of a major airline that is represented by one union or another. You won't be picking ALPA at that point. ALPA will be picking you!
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No offense to all those who are doing whatever they can to better the airline pilot profession but I have a few comments and concerns:

Why is SAPA inadequate in its dealings with the St. George Supremes? How could ALPA representation strengthen the bargaining postion of the flight crews?

Isn't Mesa represented by ALPA? How are their working conditions compared to the rest of the industry (rhetorical)? Doesn't GoJets have Teamster union representation?

And for me the biggest questions:

How did ALPA-represented UAL pilots allow a ridiculously large pay raise with their 'Contract 2000' campaign, only to see the pilots pay and quality of life break into pieces? How come UAL ALPA wasn't able to make a better stand against management?

How did ALPA-represented American Airlines allow a contract to be negotiated in such a way that still has 2,800+ pilots on furlough SIX years after 9/11? This is even more amazing when you consider that American is one of the few profitable major airlines of now? Where is ALPA now?

Short and Sweet: Why is ALPA 'special'?

If one were to find these questions stupid, I am sorry. Maybe I'm the one thats stupid, but I have yet to find answers to these questions

Peace Outside
 
berge7f9 said:
No offense to all those who are doing whatever they can to better the airline pilot profession but I have a few comments and concerns:

Why is SAPA inadequate in its dealings with the St. George Supremes? How could ALPA representation strengthen the bargaining postion of the flight crews?

Isn't Mesa represented by ALPA? How are their working conditions compared to the rest of the industry (rhetorical)? Doesn't GoJets have Teamster union representation?

And for me the biggest questions:

How did ALPA-represented UAL pilots allow a ridiculously large pay raise with their 'Contract 2000' campaign, only to see the pilots pay and quality of life break into pieces? How come UAL ALPA wasn't able to make a better stand against management?

How did ALPA-represented American Airlines allow a contract to be negotiated in such a way that still has 2,800+ pilots on furlough SIX years after 9/11? This is even more amazing when you consider that American is one of the few profitable major airlines of now? Where is ALPA now?

Short and Sweet: Why is ALPA 'special'?

If one were to find these questions stupid, I am sorry. Maybe I'm the one thats stupid, but I have yet to find answers to these questions

Peace Outside
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Not sure about the rest, but American is NOT ALPA. They are one of the main reasons ALPA says 94% instead of nearly 100% of pilots are covered by ALPA. American is under the APA, the Allied Pilot's Association, I believe is what it stands for.

Carry on your discussion...
 
It's funny how everyone likes to point out all the failures of ALPA's pay scales over the past few years, when in reality that isn't *just* what having ALPA on property is all aboot. When I think of ALPA here, I don't think about my pay so much, but the myriad of resources available to me from ALPA national, the protection they allow for, and the grievance process as it exists today. All of which a "pilot represented group" such as the Colgan Pilot Group would not be able to do - which would defeat the point of even having them.

Sure, the recent paycuts sucked. Well, I think we could all admit that the events of 9/11 were out of ALPA's control. Everyone took pay cuts. We are operating on a 15% direct hourly wage cut and several other cuts such as a trip rig of 4:1 instead of 3.5:1. However, ALPA has sent their lawyers out and we are in the process of getting that back (we did win the grievance incidentally). There's no way my pilot group could've afforded to pay for what ALPA has paid for in this one grievance alone.
 
Without union representation, I'd have lost my job last year because of a tiff I had with a 'large flight academy in Florida'.

Without a doubt.

End of story.

Thank you ALPA contract administration.

That was my burning bush, my Virgin Mary in a PB&J sandwich, my "I see dead people" moment.
 
berge7f9 said:
No offense to all those who are doing whatever they can to better the airline pilot profession but I have a few comments and concerns:

Why is SAPA inadequate in its dealings with the St. George Supremes? How could ALPA representation strengthen the bargaining postion of the flight crews?

Isn't Mesa represented by ALPA? How are their working conditions compared to the rest of the industry (rhetorical)? Doesn't GoJets have Teamster union representation?

And for me the biggest questions:

How did ALPA-represented UAL pilots allow a ridiculously large pay raise with their 'Contract 2000' campaign, only to see the pilots pay and quality of life break into pieces? How come UAL ALPA wasn't able to make a better stand against management?

How did ALPA-represented American Airlines allow a contract to be negotiated in such a way that still has 2,800+ pilots on furlough SIX years after 9/11? This is even more amazing when you consider that Americaon is one of the few profitable major airlines of now? Where is ALPA now?

Short and Sweet: Why is ALPA 'special'?

If one were to find these questions stupid, I am sorry. Maybe I'm the one thats stupid, but I have yet to find answers to these questions

Peace Outside
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The more I'm around ALPA the more I realize that your union is only as good as YOU make it. Stated another way, your contract is only as good as your local leadership. If you have a large number of volunteers, an educated and proactive negotiating team, you will get a good contract. Before you ask what's the difference in local leadership and SAPA, consider the resources that ALPA national provides your local leadership. It's a vast array of things that go beyond money and legal representation. Consider the value of experience in negotiating contracts and ALPA's ability to provide assistance to your local leadership in an advisory role. If you ever have a conversation with the XJT negotiating team they will tell you how our contract would never have happened if it were not for ALPA national.

I can't really answer as to why Mesa's contract is what it is or why United did a 180 there are others that can give you their opinion but remember that contracts are a product of the environment they were negotiated in. Explain to me how having all the regionals under one union would not be a good thing?
 
Cav said:
The more I'm around ALPA the more I realize that your union is only as good as YOU make it. Stated another way, your contract is only as good as your local leadership.
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Precisamundo.
 
berge7f9 said:
No offense to all those who are doing whatever they can to better the airline pilot profession but I have a few comments and concerns:

Why is SAPA inadequate in its dealings with the St. George Supremes? How could ALPA representation strengthen the bargaining postion of the flight crews?

Isn't Mesa represented by ALPA? How are their working conditions compared to the rest of the industry (rhetorical)? Doesn't GoJets have Teamster union representation?

And for me the biggest questions:

How did ALPA-represented UAL pilots allow a ridiculously large pay raise with their 'Contract 2000' campaign, only to see the pilots pay and quality of life break into pieces? How come UAL ALPA wasn't able to make a better stand against management?

How did ALPA-represented American Airlines allow a contract to be negotiated in such a way that still has 2,800+ pilots on furlough SIX years after 9/11? This is even more amazing when you consider that American is one of the few profitable major airlines of now? Where is ALPA now?

Short and Sweet: Why is ALPA 'special'?

If one were to find these questions stupid, I am sorry. Maybe I'm the one thats stupid, but I have yet to find answers to these questions

Peace Outside
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Berge to answer your points.

The reason MESA has such a crummy contract is because of what the company was going to do back with Freedom 'I'. MESA management told the Mesa pilots that either they settle for this contract or they will transfer the flying over to the Freedom operating certificate and shut MESA down. The Mesa pilots stood strong, were able to get a scope clause in their contract to prevent Freedom from forming under their own certificate. Mesa sacrificed contract perks to save their flying. TSA did the opposite and that is why we have GOJETS.

GOJETS is in the Teamsters. They are actually in a different local than Horizon and CHQ pilots.

American Airlines is NOT ALPA they are their own pilot group. A good majority of those 2800 on furlough are former TWA guys who were ALPA. The American Airlines pilot union stapled them on to the bottom of the list. Not to much ALPA could do about that, they were bought out by another group.

With the United Pilot group it is called 9/11.

Short and Sweet ALPA is an insurance policy for our career. We are professionals. We need professional help to allow us to prosper and be protected in our profession.

Does this answer your questions?
 
Cav said:
The more I'm around ALPA the more I realize that your union is only as good as YOU make it.
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Cav, you hit the nail directly on the head.

Don't complain, do something about it!

All ALPA naysayers should take what you said to heart!
 
berge7f9 said:
No offense to all those who are doing whatever they can to better the airline pilot profession but I have a few comments and concerns:

Why is SAPA inadequate in its dealings with the St. George Supremes? How could ALPA representation strengthen the bargaining postion of the flight crews?

Isn't Mesa represented by ALPA? How are their working conditions compared to the rest of the industry (rhetorical)? Doesn't GoJets have Teamster union representation?

And for me the biggest questions:

How did ALPA-represented UAL pilots allow a ridiculously large pay raise with their 'Contract 2000' campaign, only to see the pilots pay and quality of life break into pieces? How come UAL ALPA wasn't able to make a better stand against management?

How did ALPA-represented American Airlines allow a contract to be negotiated in such a way that still has 2,800+ pilots on furlough SIX years after 9/11? This is even more amazing when you consider that American is one of the few profitable major airlines of now? Where is ALPA now?

Short and Sweet: Why is ALPA 'special'?

If one were to find these questions stupid, I am sorry. Maybe I'm the one thats stupid, but I have yet to find answers to these questions

Peace Outside
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My friend. SAPA has no legal power. They are funded by mgmt. They are a direct conflict of interest. When you think of SAPA, think Student Council at your local high school.

Here's a re-enactment of a meeting between SAPA and B.H.

SAPA President: This student council meeting will now come to order. (bang bang bang)

First up on the agenda...Pay. Brad we think we should get a raise.

B.H: No

Sapa: Ok, now that thats settled, shall we order the steak or the fish?
 
mrivc211 said:
My friend. SAPA has no legal power. They are funded by mgmt. They are a direct conflict of interest. When you think of SAPA, think Student Council at your local high school.

Here's a re-enactment of a meeting between SAPA and B.H.

SAPA President: This student council meeting will now come to order. (bang bang bang)

First up on the agenda...Pay. Brad we think we should get a raise.

B.H: No

Sapa: Ok, now that thats settled, shall we order the steak or the fish?
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Ok. I see why the rest of SKYW Inc needs ALPA. If the above scenario is true, which I believe it is, then end of discussion on that one.

Seriously, what is up with Brad and some of the those Flight Ops St. Georgians?

I say this because sometimes I sent them job-related correspondence and requests for information on how to find repo or ferry flights to jumpseat on (since I was an intern - Employee # 240??). Either cases, he and other people there never responded. I know he read his messages, but then he never responded.

I didnt know American wasnt ALPAnized. I guess TWA is a good reason why their furlough list sticks out like a sore thumb.

I still dont understand how United ALPA rose and fell so quickly. I think there was more to it than 9/11. I imagine employee-management relations are the worst there than anyplace else. In my relatively short lifespan, I have been to the headquarters of United, Skywest, ASA, Delta, Comair, and ExpressJet. Only United to my knowledge has their headquarters surrounded by barbed wire fences as if it were Guantanamo.
 
Let me get this straight, you sent the VP of Flight Ops an email asking for ferry flight schedules so you could joy-ride around the system and you're surprised he didn't respond?

That's like not getting a return email from Dick Cheney about tour times at the Capitol.
 
Cheechako said:
Let me get this straight, you sent the VP of Flight Ops an email asking for ferry flight schedules so you could joy-ride around the system and you're surprised he didn't respond?

That's like not getting a return email from Dick Cheney about tour times at the Capitol.
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You have whats called the 'wrong end of the stick.'

During my internship with 'the employer of choice' I was told by multiple sources that I was going to get certain things as a gesture of their appreciation for the work I did, since I didnt earn a penny for the 4 months that worked there. I was responsible for checking all of the manifests for every departure out of ORD (anywhere from 130 to 160). I ended up checking god knows how many thousands of manifests. During that time, I found many manifests that did not have the signature on them, meaning that if the FAA found out about it it would have cost the company 10 grand per manifest unsigned.

Not being an expert on some of those areas or being in a position to help me, my chief pilot(s) referred me to several people within the company who might have been able to help me. All of them read the messages I sent them, few responded. For example, I sent a message to all 5 of the RJ instructors who were conducting simulator training in SLC, I got only 1 response. When I met that one instructor in SLC, he could not think of a reason why the other instructors did not give me a simple response.

Those are the things I cannot understand. If you receive a message from someone asking something, the professional thing to do is to at least respond to it; if you don't how to respond to a certain message, delegate that task to someone else? That seems like common sense to me, but I guess I obviously lack common sense.
 
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