Suicide attempt as a teen in middle school, possible to get a medical?

B

bluejay163

Guest
Hi all, when I was 13, I tried to attempt suicide over bullying. Ever since then, I regretted it and I had undergone therapy. I was not prescribed any anti-depressants, and I'm not aware of any previous mental disorders that would disqualify me. I'm currently 17, would this be a long and hard process to go through? I stumbled across an FAA Medical Bulletin published in 2010 and there was a case report about airmen getting his medical for a suicide attempt when he was a minor (if anyone wants to read that https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi...signee_types/ame/fasmb/media/201001_color.pdf - page 12), and it gave me some sense of hope that it would be possible; but I'm not sure how difficult it would be. What kind of worms am I opening myself up to here? I'm all in preventing another Germanwings crash, I'm just interested to see if it would be possible although I'm sure declaring a past suicide attempt as a minor would be a major red flag.
 
Hi all, when I was 13, I tried to attempt suicide over bullying. Ever since then, I regretted it and I had undergone therapy. I was not prescribed any anti-depressants, and I'm not aware of any previous mental disorders that would disqualify me. I'm currently 17, would this be a long and hard process to go through? I stumbled across an FAA Medical Bulletin published in 2010 and there was a case report about airmen getting his medical for a suicide attempt when he was a minor (if anyone wants to read that https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi...signee_types/ame/fasmb/media/201001_color.pdf - page 12), and it gave me some sense of hope that it would be possible; but I'm not sure how difficult it would be. What kind of worms am I opening myself up to here? I'm all in preventing another Germanwings crash, I'm just interested to see if it would be possible although I'm sure declaring a past suicide attempt as a minor would be a major red flag.

Excellent question. To provide you with a perspective, I will defer to a HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION or what others might label as a "what if" situation. For example. . .

If I were explaining this hypothetical to my child or a student, or if I were a counselor, the answer would be first, that there are no ABSOLUTES when it comes a medical. Every flight physical is performed on a case by case basis given the fact each person receiving a physical may have similar experiences/attributes but not necessarily the SAME experiences. There is also this privacy concern called The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 which stipulates how personally identifiable information maintained by the healthcare and healthcare insurance industries should be protected from fraud and theft, and address limitations on healthcare insurance coverage. This means personal information is private and should remain private.

When talking to a proper medical authority, be open and honest. Whatever determination they make will influence how far you can go in your aviation career. Do not be discouraged by whatever answer you receive. Best of luck.
 
Hi all, when I was 13, I tried to attempt suicide over bullying. Ever since then, I regretted it and I had undergone therapy. I was not prescribed any anti-depressants, and I'm not aware of any previous mental disorders that would disqualify me. I'm currently 17, would this be a long and hard process to go through? I stumbled across an FAA Medical Bulletin published in 2010 and there was a case report about airmen getting his medical for a suicide attempt when he was a minor (if anyone wants to read that https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi...signee_types/ame/fasmb/media/201001_color.pdf - page 12), and it gave me some sense of hope that it would be possible; but I'm not sure how difficult it would be. What kind of worms am I opening myself up to here? I'm all in preventing another Germanwings crash, I'm just interested to see if it would be possible although I'm sure declaring a past suicide attempt as a minor would be a major red flag.
Hey, i usually only want to kill myself when i wake up in the morning.

Do me a favor, find a good AME, if you can't private message me. 5 or 8% of the AMEs in the country do something like 85% of the medicals for airline pilots because many AMEs are screwball idiots that won't do any work to help you and are scared to talk to the FAA like an adult.

I cant promise you'll like the answer but you will need to talk to a pro. Let one of us find that guy for ya, dont use google.
 
Hey, i usually only want to kill myself when i wake up in the morning.

Do me a favor, find a good AME, if you can't private message me. 5 or 8% of the AMEs in the country do something like 85% of the medicals for airline pilots because many AMEs are screwball idiots that won't do any work to help you and are scared to talk to the FAA like an adult.

I cant promise you'll like the answer but you will need to talk to a pro. Let one of us find that guy for ya, dont use google.

Seriously, if you need to talk, hit me up. That goes for anyone.
 
...
Do me a favor, find a good AME, if you can't private message me. 5 or 8% of the AMEs in the country do something like 85% of the medicals for airline pilots because many AMEs are screwball idiots that won't do any work to help you and are scared to talk to the FAA like an adult.
...
Good advice - use an AME that really understands the FAA, and works with them every day. I, and many other professional pilots in Michigan, go to guys like Dr. Pinnell.

Let us know where you’re located, and I’ll bet someone here can give you some advice on a good examiner to use.
 
Good advice - use an AME that really understands the FAA, and works with them every day. I, and many other professional pilots in Michigan, go to guys like Dr. Pinnell.

Let us know where you’re located, and I’ll bet someone here can give you some advice on a good examiner to use.

I'm located in New Jersey. I heard Dr. Sheren is a good guy and he has gotten SI's with people who have ATP's but I'm not sure. I emailed Dr. Chien and he said it's impossible due to Germanwings, but I'm sure it just has gotten a bit harder in what they're looking for, so I'm not exactly sure that it's outright impossible.
 
Maybe other people may have any recommendations in the NJ area for good AME's?
 
Maybe other people may have any recommendations in the NJ area for good AME's?
I would rather call an ATL guy that many of us airline guys use and he'd be better to speak up for Sheren. If he's in the right circles my guy would know.
 
I'm located in New Jersey. I heard Dr. Sheren is a good guy and he has gotten SI's with people who have ATP's but I'm not sure. I emailed Dr. Chien and he said it's impossible due to Germanwings, but I'm sure it just has gotten a bit harder in what they're looking for, so I'm not exactly sure that it's outright impossible.

I just noticed you already emailed him...

So, with that, he's unfortunately, probably right. It's going to be an uphill battle but hopefully, it can be done.

Here's what I recommend now...



Find a nearby FAA HIMS Doc... Current HIMS AME list.. You might want to call them first to see what they want you to bring to the appointment... Ask them if you should bring a HIMS Psych Eval, or Neuropsych eval to the exam.

Get a HIMS Psychiatry Evaluation from Dr. Mario Finkelstein, in Morristown, NJ. Make sure he knows you want to become a pilot and that you need a HIMS Aviation Psychiatry Evaluation. He'll know what that is. Call his office and ask for info about doing that evaluation. (973) 538-0111

If you want to go nuclear, you could also get an FAA Neuropsychological Exam (Cog Screen) from a HIMS Neuropsychologist. I'm not sure if this would help, but might be worth a shot. I'm also not sure that a doctor will do this screening without a letter from the FAA requesting it. I don't know him myself, but I've heard Dr. Dasilva is apparently pretty good in his field. Info here: Daniel DaSilva, Ph.D.

Now, with all that, the FAA will probably deny it. The next step would be to write a letter to your Congressman and Senators in which you tell them you are trying to become a pilot, and that the FAA has been a challenge due to your mental health history. I'd probably include the doctor reports describing you as mentally healthy and not a risk to anyone etc... You can worry about this later, if the FAA actually denies it.

In short (and estimate on cost):

1) See a HIMS AME (150 base + 350/hr)
2) HIMS Psych Eval (500-1000)
3) HIMS Cogscreen (expensive.. 1500-3000)
4) Submit to FAA
5) Wait
6) Hopefully get a special issuance
6B) Or time to email politicians etc

I'm kinda all over the place with this post. If you need clarification or have more questions, feel free to ask or PM me.
 
You have my empathy. Middle school can be hell. I don't think Germanwings guy wasn't suicidal until he found out he was losing his medical and in his 20's. Hardly the same situation as yours.

I got sick and couldn't fly for a bit - the feeling was the most emasculating experience of my life. Most of my identity was largely tied up in operating sky-equipment and losing that (albeit temporarily, but I didn't know it at the time) was utterly devastating. People don't realize just how important being able to do something you find meaningful is. One of the biggest issues was how many of my friends were in flying, so many of my friends simply disappeared, and the ones who stuck around I tended to alienate because suddenly I didn't want to talk about airplanes - but all I wanted to talk about was airplanes.

Things can get bleak out there - we need to take care of each other, especially right now.
 
I just noticed you already emailed him...

So, with that, he's unfortunately, probably right. It's going to be an uphill battle but hopefully, it can be done.

Here's what I recommend now...



Find a nearby FAA HIMS Doc... Current HIMS AME list.. You might want to call them first to see what they want you to bring to the appointment... Ask them if you should bring a HIMS Psych Eval, or Neuropsych eval to the exam.

Get a HIMS Psychiatry Evaluation from Dr. Mario Finkelstein, in Morristown, NJ. Make sure he knows you want to become a pilot and that you need a HIMS Aviation Psychiatry Evaluation. He'll know what that is. Call his office and ask for info about doing that evaluation. (973) 538-0111

If you want to go nuclear, you could also get an FAA Neuropsychological Exam (Cog Screen) from a HIMS Neuropsychologist. I'm not sure if this would help, but might be worth a shot. I'm also not sure that a doctor will do this screening without a letter from the FAA requesting it. I don't know him myself, but I've heard Dr. Dasilva is apparently pretty good in his field. Info here: Daniel DaSilva, Ph.D.

Now, with all that, the FAA will probably deny it. The next step would be to write a letter to your Congressman and Senators in which you tell them you are trying to become a pilot, and that the FAA has been a challenge due to your mental health history. I'd probably include the doctor reports describing you as mentally healthy and not a risk to anyone etc... You can worry about this later, if the FAA actually denies it.

In short (and estimate on cost):

1) See a HIMS AME (150 base + 350/hr)
2) HIMS Psych Eval (500-1000)
3) HIMS Cogscreen (expensive.. 1500-3000)
4) Submit to FAA
5) Wait
6) Hopefully get a special issuance
6B) Or time to email politicians etc

I'm kinda all over the place with this post. If you need clarification or have more questions, feel free to ask or PM me.
Thank you! I'll try to reach out to a HIMS AME and see what he thinks.


You have my empathy. Middle school can be hell. I don't think Germanwings guy wasn't suicidal until he found out he was losing his medical and in his 20's. Hardly the same situation as yours.

Yeah, I know right. Not the same situation at all, that Germanwings guy was never supposed to fly. I saw a thread on here that was published around 10+ years ago about a situational suicide attempt - similar to mine suicide attempt and it looked like after he talked to his AME, he just put down no https://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/passed-my-1st-class-medical.17045/. I think it would be a good idea just to talk to my AME and see what he thinks.
 
Good advice - use an AME that really understands the FAA, and works with them every day. I, and many other professional pilots in Michigan, go to guys like Dr. Pinnell.

Let us know where you’re located, and I’ll bet someone here can give you some advice on a good examiner to use.

Great guy.
 
I'm located in New Jersey. I heard Dr. Sheren is a good guy and he has gotten SI's with people who have ATP's but I'm not sure. I emailed Dr. Chien and he said it's impossible due to Germanwings, but I'm sure it just has gotten a bit harder in what they're looking for, so I'm not exactly sure that it's outright impossible.

You have my empathy. Middle school can be hell. I don't think Germanwings guy wasn't suicidal until he found out he was losing his medical and in his 20's. Hardly the same situation as yours.

I'm no AME, but I'd gander that the Germanwings incident is completely different than your suicide attempt. That guy was bipolar and I'm going to also guess he had some serious Access II issues (personality disorder) i.e. he was a psychopath. It is completely abnormal for someone to want to mort themselves along with 186 people and crew (or however many ppl were on the flight).

It takes a person with a total and complete lack of empathy and a diminished capacity to want to premeditatively pull off such a heinous act like that. In my totally unprofessional opinion, that guy was completely maladaptive and wanted attention similar to the pathology of many school shooters. He wanted to be remembered, have his name in the history books and he wanted to go out big, no matter the cost. I mean he's dead and look we're taking about him now. This is what he wanted!

People who typically commit suicide successfully or unsuccessfully and aren't total f-ing nut cases, typically never tell anyone of their intentions, their friends/family are generally shocked and surprised when they find out. They don't really want to hurt anyone. They just want their hurting to stop and do it so secretively because they don't want to hurt or inconvenience anyone else with their problems.

My point is, again, that your situation doesn't sound anything like Germanwings. Like at all. Hopefully an AME can also see that and after some documentation and an observable time period, he/she gives you the stamp of approval and a 1st class medical.

Good luck.
 
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I wish you the best of luck. As others have said, the German Wings F/O's behavior goes far, far beyond a teenager attempting solo suicide due to bullying. Seeings as you regret it and seem "normal" since, I would have no problem with someone like you flying me around, personally. Don't give up, as I'd be surprised if persistence will never pay off in the end here for you. But like @juxtapilot said, it could be a long and expensive road. Just be prepared.
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I’ll talk to an AME about this and see what he thinks. Hopefully, it can be like the other thread where that person didn’t need to disclose it.
 
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