Studying for a BFR

jtrain609

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
Heya everyone,


So right now I'm still bored at work, and I'm studying for a BFR oral that should be happening sometime next week. The instructor told me to go over part 91 parts A, B and C and some random stuff out of part 61. But what I'm really wondering is what I should expect out of this? I've never had to do a BFR before, so I don't know if I should be expecting my private oral all over again or what. How intense should this be? And I'm skipping over stuff that does not apply to my certificate, like stuff about floatplanes and what not. I figure since I'm not rated for it, I shouldn't be asked any questions about it.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
Know your airspace 'rules', cloud clearance etc, V speeds for your airplane, basic FARs (speed limits, how long is a medical good for..), how to read a chart.......

I dunno, I'm so seriously overdue for my BFR I'm going to have to study for a week when I finally get around to doing it!
 
Is cloud clearence and other VFR stuff really that important anymore now that I've got an instrument ticket? I think you're right in that I have to know it, but why? I don't think I've operated without an IFR flight plan for over a year.
 
Well what if you are on an instrument flight plan, and "radar service is terminated squawk VFR"...then I suppose cloud requirements are necessary right?.......
 
That would be if I canceled my IFR clearence. I would only do that if it's clear out, otherwise I'm shooting an approach.

That's the whole point of being able to file and fly in the system; to stay in the system until you're down.
 
That is true, I don't know then..you got me. I think Gleim put out a BFR book either that or ASA did. Personally, I would just get the ASA books for the private and instrument oral and peruse those.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is cloud clearence and other VFR stuff really that important anymore now that I've got an instrument ticket? I think you're right in that I have to know it, but why? I don't think I've operated without an IFR flight plan for over a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just about to say that. Although it shouldn't be an instrument proficiency check, a BFR should be adjusted to the type of flying that you do and should concentrate on ensuring that you're a safe pilot. It should not be a Private Pilot checkride all over again, although some CFIs try to get into DE mode.

If I were doing it, I'd probably REVIEW things like cloud clearances but it would be just that - a review.

Do you need an IPC? I'd see about knocking them both out at the same time. It would be more work, but then you could truly have a customized review for your particular type of flying.
 
We're gonna do the IPC seperate, with a seperate oral portion for that. Once I'm done with all this crap I'm gonna be so current I'd be like...mega-currency-man. Right now I'm the anti-current. Right now I could fly me and skibum around day VFR in decent weather, but that's about it. I'm also gonna have to go do some night landings with this guy sometime. Maybe I can make that part of the 172 checkout.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is cloud clearence and other VFR stuff really that important anymore now that I've got an instrument ticket?

[/ QUOTE ]Good question.

You are on an instrument flight to Benton Harbor (BEH). You're receiving vectors to the ILS 27. You know from the NOTAMS before flight that the CD channel at BEH is OTS and that you will need to close your IFR flight plan either in the air or by telephoning FSS.

Prior to clearing you for the approach, ATC advises you that three other aircraft are in line for the approach after you, and asks whether you would be so kind as to cancel IFR as soon as you can. Being a nice kinda of guy, and figuring someday you will be the last guy in line, you want to do what you can to clear the airspace for the next guy,

The ASOS has been reporting a 900 ft ceiling and, indeed, you break out at 1500 msl, about 850' above the ground. What's the earliest point at which you may cancel IFR?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well what if you are on an instrument flight plan, and "radar service is terminated squawk VFR"...then I suppose cloud requirements are necessary right?.......

[/ QUOTE ]Nope. ATC can't do that to someone on an IFR flight plan.

But back to your question. Most CFIs treat the FR as just that, a review. The ground work will tend to focus on parts of Part 61 that deal with currency requirements and the Part 91 review will usually cover basic rules of the road and other information that you really should have at in your head as you fly around. A good CFI will test the limits of that knowledge.

But remember that for both the ground and the flight, it's not really a test (although some CFIs who are actually frustrated DPEs may try to make it one). You can't "fail" in the sense of a pink slip or negative comment in your logbook. The FR regulation calls it training and most CFIs treat it that way. If there are areas that look like they need some work,just be prepared to work on them before the CFI decides that you have "satisfactorily completed" the review before he signs the endorsement.

I do something that I know a couple of other CFIs (but not that many) do. I start off with a knowledge test that the pilot can do at home before we meet. Open book and take your time. If you want to take a look, mine is on my website. Look under the "Flight Training" menu
 
is benton harbor class b, c, d, e, or g? depending on what the cloud clearance underneath are i would say you can cancel then, for instance during the day in class d you could cancel from 300 ft agl since that would give you 500 ft under the clouds. But also, i m assuming the tower woul dbe open during the day at a class d airport. It all depends on when (day or night) and what type of airspace you are in. if it were me i would call the field when i broke out and cancel soon thereafter....assuming things werent happening too quickly and i wasnt talking to atc on short final....
 
If you can get through the ASA BFR book, you will be right on track.

I gave one BFR during my instructor days. We started off with small talk. I was interested to see what type of flying he did most frequently (X/C, night, over water, etc.). Slowly we got into the meat and potatoes, continously focusing on the items he would encounter or be exposed to most often. As it was mentioned above, some instructors like to play the role of the DPE. It is unprofessional and unneccessary to give a mock PP check ride during a BFR. It should be fun, relaxing and most importantly, educational.

I would not worry about it to much. Know your systems, Airspace and regs, all of which are covered in the ASA book.
 
[ QUOTE ]
is benton harbor class b, c, d, e, or g?

[/ QUOTE ]I used that airport as an example because it's in the area where ILSstud's profile indicates he flies and he was wondering if this VFR stuff was important. Sorry I didn't give more information.

The question only makes sense for a Class E or G airport. You would not have to cancel your own IFR at a towered airport with the tower operating.

In this case, Benton Harbor is in a Class E surface area. The approach chart in the question is at http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/00721I27.PDF

But assuming that it was Class D and for some reason you =wanted= to cancel in the air, your answer
[ QUOTE ]
for instance during the day in class d you could cancel from 300 ft agl since that would give you 500 ft under the clouds.

[/ QUOTE ] is incorrect.

We'll leave the "why" alone for a moment, until we get some other answers, although the point really is that you have to understand VFR requirements in order to answer this IFR procedural question and it's one that a VFR-only pilot wouldn't be too concerned about or even necessarily undersatnd.
 
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In this case, Benton Harbor is in a Class E surface area.

[/ QUOTE ]

But only from 1100-0430Z, if you want to make things more complicated.
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[ QUOTE ]
But only from 1100-0430Z, if you want to make things more complicated.
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[/ QUOTE ]Good Grief!
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All I was looking for was a nice non-towered airport with a magenta segmented area around it in the general area. I was surprised to see so few. Guess that's what happens when I use an area I'm unfamiliar with as an example.

I guess I could say that for the purpose of the question, Class E is in effect, but by now everyone's so confused that maybe we'd better start over with a brand new airport.

Although anyone is welcome to take a shot at either. The question is the same, only the location has been changed to protect the guilty (me, in this case)

******************************
You are on an instrument flight to Goodland, KS (GLD). You're receiving vectors from Denver Center to the ILS 30. Once on the ground, communication capability is such that you will have to telephone FSS in order to cancel.

Prior to clearing you for the approach, ATC advises you that three other aircraft are in line for the approach after you, and asks whether you would be so kind as to cancel IFR as soon as you can. Being a nice kinda of guy, and figuring someday you will be the last guy in line, you want to do what you can to clear the airspace for the next guy,

You break out at 4500 msl, about 850' above the ground. What's the earliest point at which you may cancel IFR?

A sectional showing Goodland is here: http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/chart/chart.cfm?chart=Sectional&typ=APT&txt=gld If youcan't get to it, it's a magenta airport surrounded by a keyhole shapeed segmented magenta line.

The approach chart is here: http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/00684ILD30.PDF
 
John I'm sure you'll do fine and have some fun, it's not a test; just a review. Actually the material in the bfr depends more on the cfi than anything, the fars give a lot of latitude as to what it consists of. Have fun
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[ QUOTE ]
I was just giving you a hard time.
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[/ QUOTE ]I knew that.
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But the point was that, as it turned out, the question I originally posted wasn't as clear as it could have been.

Hard to prove a point when tripping over your own shoelaces!
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Can't cancel IFR until on the ground.
§ 91.155(c) Except as provided in § 91.157 of this part (Special VFR), no person may operate an aircraft beneath the ceiling under VFR within the lateral boundaries of controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport when the ceiling is less than 1,000 feet.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But only from 1100-0430Z, if you want to make things more complicated.
tongue.gif


[/ QUOTE ]Good Grief!
banghead.gif
All I was looking for was a nice non-towered airport with a magenta segmented area around it in the general area. I was surprised to see so few. Guess that's what happens when I use an area I'm unfamiliar with as an example.

I guess I could say that for the purpose of the question, Class E is in effect, but by now everyone's so confused that maybe we'd better start over with a brand new airport.

Although anyone is welcome to take a shot at either. The question is the same, only the location has been changed to protect the guilty (me, in this case)

******************************
You are on an instrument flight to Goodland, KS (GLD). You're receiving vectors from Denver Center to the ILS 30. Once on the ground, communication capability is such that you will have to telephone FSS in order to cancel.

Prior to clearing you for the approach, ATC advises you that three other aircraft are in line for the approach after you, and asks whether you would be so kind as to cancel IFR as soon as you can. Being a nice kinda of guy, and figuring someday you will be the last guy in line, you want to do what you can to clear the airspace for the next guy,

You break out at 4500 msl, about 850' above the ground. What's the earliest point at which you may cancel IFR?

A sectional showing Goodland is here: http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/chart/chart.cfm?chart=Sectional&typ=APT&txt=gld If youcan't get to it, it's a magenta airport surrounded by a keyhole shapeed segmented magenta line.

The approach chart is here: http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/00684ILD30.PDF

[/ QUOTE ]

I also say that you can't cancel. You are not allowed to operate an aircraft in controlled airspace with weather conditions below VFR min's without an IFR clearance....even if clear of clouds.

Sucks for those people behind you. It sounds like it's time to start bitching to the airport manager about getting an RCO
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