Students required to use fuel truck?

subpilot

subpilot

Squawking 7600
So there is a flight school that has a policy that the students will fuel the aircraft Using the fuel truck. This includes having to take the truck to the fuel farm when it gets empty and refilling the truck with 100LL. I think that is beyond the scope of a student's responsibility and the school should have an employee who drives the truck. I don't even know if this is legal. What do you all think of this and is there any other school out there that has this same policy?
 
What does insurance say about the policy? Don't you need a commercial license to drive a fuel truck?
 
It would all depend on size and brake system on the truck. Normal 100LL trucks probably wouldn't require a CDL. And if you weren't driving it on public roads it wouldn't matter.
 
Yeah, it sounds fishy to me. I am going to have to investigate the state and airport regulations. Of course, i haven't seen the truck. For all I know, it could be an S-10 with a 50 gallon xfer tank in the bed.
 
Call me a snob, but I don't think I'd train at an FBO where I had to do that.

Unless the rates were somehow lower for doing that. Then I suppose it might be okay.

However, if you combine this concept with the "Stupidest things students have said" thread, it makes you wonder if you really want some of these students handling large quantities of volatile hydrocarbons.
 
I do not believe it is illegal, and no CDL is required.

Definitely beyond the scope of a student pilot, they should have trained personel to handle the fueling and fuel farm.

And an S-10 with a X-Fer tank would be more illegal than anything.
 
Agree that refueling is probably not illegal however, allowing student pilots to refuel would invite liability.

I worked line service at BFI and YUM, did not have a commercial driver's license but I was limited to operating the fuel truck on airport property.
 
subpilot said:
So there is a flight school that has a policy that the students will fuel the aircraft Using the fuel truck. This includes having to take the truck to the fuel farm when it gets empty and refilling the truck with 100LL. I think that is beyond the scope of a student's responsibility and the school should have an employee who drives the truck. I don't even know if this is legal. What do you all think of this and is there any other school out there that has this same policy?
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I certainly wouldn't want to take on the liability and start looking for another flight school.

$80/hr to fly their airplane, I'm going to want $20/hr to play fuel boy! :)
 
subpilot said:
So there is a flight school that has a policy that the students will fuel the aircraft Using the fuel truck. This includes having to take the truck to the fuel farm when it gets empty and refilling the truck with 100LL. I think that is beyond the scope of a student's responsibility and the school should have an employee who drives the truck. I don't even know if this is legal. What do you all think of this and is there any other school out there that has this same policy?
Click to expand...

I suspect you're talking about a small school in Ft. Pierce/ Vero Beach area? While the prices are cheap, relatively speaking, this place is shady.
 
amjon said:
What does insurance say about the policy? Don't you need a commercial license to drive a fuel truck?
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No.

That said, there's no way that I would, as a CUSTOMER, be willing to drag their fuel truck to and from the farm...having dragged my fair share of fuel to and from the farm in my younger and more vulnerable years. Self serve? Sure. Full fledged line guy? I think, not.
 
I'm not sure as to the shadiness of the operation in question, but I fail to see how this can't be a good learning experience. How is this any different than pulling up to the self-serve and fueling up? At the very least, if the student learns to do it they will know what to watch out for when those crazy rampers screw up or do it wrong. I agree having to do it everytime is weird but every once in awhile not so bad. Only my opinion, but unless there's something more to this then I don't see a problem.
 
subpilot said:
So there is a flight school that has a policy that the students will fuel the aircraft Using the fuel truck. This includes having to take the truck to the fuel farm when it gets empty and refilling the truck with 100LL. I think that is beyond the scope of a student's responsibility and the school should have an employee who drives the truck. I don't even know if this is legal. What do you all think of this and is there any other school out there that has this same policy?
Click to expand...

amjon said:
What does insurance say about the policy? Don't you need a commercial license to drive a fuel truck?
Click to expand...

subpilot said:
Yeah, it sounds fishy to me. I am going to have to investigate the state and airport regulations. Of course, i haven't seen the truck. For all I know, it could be an S-10 with a 50 gallon xfer tank in the bed.
Click to expand...


Ok, well I have personal experience with 2 schools where you drive the truck yourself. The 1st was Georgia Aviation and Technical College. At GAVTC every student received training on operating the fuel truck, fueling airplanes and helicopters. If I remember right it was an F550, 1200 gal tank, with a PTO driven high flow pump. The next school was helicopter only and it was located at a heliport not an airport. Same thing there except the trucks were S-10s or Ford Rangers with 150gal tanks in them. Received training there too. I never felt in danger by another student at either place.

As for whether it is legal or not. Yes it is legal as long as your not on any public road. Driving around on the ramp or airport is perfectly legal. You do have to have a CDL and HAZMAT endorsement to carry any amount of fuel larger than the small tarnsfer tanks you see in truck beds on public roads. The truck also has to have placards on it showing what its carrying.
 
I drove a fuel truck without a CDL. I don't think it matters as long as you are on airport property. It's very different than pulling up to a self-serve, because a self-serve doesn't require you to haul around thousands of gallons of 100LL. It's like driving the BP truck around to the front of your car (and refilling the truck at the refinery when it's empty) versus pulling up to the gas pump and swiping a credit card.
 
Rotor2Wing said:
Ok, well I have personal experience with 2 schools where you drive the truck yourself. The 1st was Georgia Aviation and Technical College. At GAVTC every student received training on operating the fuel truck, fueling airplanes and helicopters. If I remember right it was an F550, 1200 gal tank, with a PTO driven high flow pump. The next school was helicopter only and it was located at a heliport not an airport. Same thing there except the trucks were S-10s or Ford Rangers with 150gal tanks in them. Received training there too. I never felt in danger by another student at either place.

As for whether it is legal or not. Yes it is legal as long as your not on any public road. Driving around on the ramp or airport is perfectly legal. You do have to have a CDL and HAZMAT endorsement to carry any amount of fuel larger than the small tarnsfer tanks you see in truck beds on public roads. The truck also has to have placards on it showing what its carrying.
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One part of line training that stuck was the UN numbers and placards. To this day I look up and verify "UN 1203" and "AVGAS 100LL" (or "UN 1863" and "JET A") when they show up with a fuel truck. Misfueling happens.

If you receive training on fueling and fuel farm operations it's less shady. But I'd still worry about liability, both for myself and for the school.
 
Why are you complaining? The flight school is simply providing free training to students for their first post-ratings job in the aviation world....




:)
 
I'm failing to see what all the discussion and/or resistance is about.

It doesn't take a genius to either fill a fuel truck or put the fuel in to the airplane. Certainly anyone who is going to be expected to actually fly an airplane can be trusted with that task.

There are no legalities that I can think of that prohibit it, AND it is a useful piece of knowledge for a pilot to have.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I'm going to want $20/hr to play fuel boy! :)
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LOL Doug, try $8hr. Students driving a fuel truck is NOT a good idea.

Driving and refueling is EASY and you can be trained in one try. Avgas trucks are historically easy to operate.

I would be worried about students crashing or damaging equipment. Injuring themselves. What about a big fuel spill? Do they know how to contain it? Who's reliable. There is NO WAY these guys are insured for this kind of operation. It's beyond the scope of the CUSTOMER and inappropriate.

These guys sound shady.
 
Krieger said:
LOL Doug, try $8hr. Students driving a fuel truck is NOT a good idea.

Driving and refueling is EASY and you can be trained in one try. Avgas trucks are historically easy to operate.

I would be worried about students crashing or damaging equipment. Injuring themselves. What about a big fuel spill? Do they know how to contain it? Who's reliable. There is NO WAY these guys are insured for this kind of operation. It's beyond the scope of the CUSTOMER and inappropriate.
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Eight fiddy in socal. The hardest part of training was figuring out how to drive stick. Good vehicle to learn in... :insane:

And I don't want them lazy pilots turkin' ar jarbz! Think of the linemen (and women)!
 
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