Student Pilot Airspeed Control Problems

FlyHigh423

Well-Known Member
Hello,

I just wanted to get some of your advice about a pre solo student pilot who is having a tough time with airspeed control in the pattern. He can maintain VX, and Vy just fine on climbout as well as 60 knots relatively well when established on final. However from the point of power reduction and while turning base the airpseed seems to be all over the place. He will normally pull power back and maintain pitch attitude while the airpseed bleeds off, add 10 degrees of flaps and instead of letting the nose drop slightly to pitch for 70 knots he seems to maintain that pitch and get to around 60 or 55 knots while still on downwind. While turning base he will either stay slow or realize he is slow and let the nose drop but stay dropped and now were doing around 80 knots turning final in a 152. This makes his approach really tough to be stable. I have tried working on it with him but just wanted some more experienced instructors advice on this. We have gone out to practice area and done simulated approaches at higher altitude and that helped briefly for about one flight.


Thanks!
 
Maybe try demonstrating every 3rd landing? I noticed that frequent demonstration could sometimes work.

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You said he has a problem controlling airspeed in the pattern. I bet he has a problem controlling airspeed, period. The pattern is the worst place to learn airspeed control in different configurations. Away from the pattern, let your student hit the correct numbers following a configuration change dozens and dozens of times. Flying a simulated pattern wastes a lot of instruction time.
 
Have him take his hands off the controls on downwind then base then final. I bet it's lazy trimming. Students often think the traffic pattern is busy enough, so with with the addition of having to trim up for each reduction in power they may think its not worth doing.
 
Have him take his hands off the controls on downwind then base then final. I bet it's lazy trimming. Students often think the traffic pattern is busy enough, so with with the addition of having to trim up for each reduction in power they may think its not worth doing.

Exactly.

Your student is just lacking a basic knowledge of what the trim is for and also needs a better understanding of how to "fly by the numbers" (proper power settings). Maintaining airspeed on climb-out is not the same as maintaining airspeed on final, they are practically opposite in my opinion. On climb-out, your student has full power applied and only has to pitch up or down to maintain his airspeed, which is why he is good at it. It's easy for him because his power setting is constant. On final, if you simply pitch for your airspeed, like you do during climb out, you are now deviating from the constant glide-path that is required while on final. When on final approach, it's power, not pitch, that is required to maintain a constant airspeed. Pitch is used to keep you on the glide-path.

Have you asked him why he slows down to the final approach speed when he isn't on final and doesn't have final approach flaps selected yet? Make sure he understands that it is a backwards way of thinking. When he slows to 55 knots on the downwind, every time he adds flaps he also has to add power or pitch down to maintain his airspeed, which in effect is causing the major airspeed fluctuations he experiences (while he hunts for the pitch and/or power setting that he needs). What happens when one day he adds flaps but forgets to add the required power/pitch while already at his final approach speed? (He'll get slow!) It's not a good habit.

If you really want to get your student in the habit of flying a smooth approach, demonstrate and then have him practice flying the pattern with no pitch inputs (e.g "no hands"). When he feels it's time to turn base/final have him do it with two fingers, like he is holding a tea cup. If he's not configured properly with power and trim it won't be possible for him to fly a stable airspeed without changing pitch attitude.

In order for him to do this it's important that you have him fly the same airspeed on the downwind every time (90 knots). Just as always, abeam the touchdown point he pulls the power back to 1500RPM (estimate) and adds 10˚, after the plane is done ballooning (which he needs to get in the habit of counteracting) have him take his hands off of the controls (e.g. hands hovering next to the controls or using only two fingers). Then have him trim for an 80 knot descent. After this step he is practically DONE, and is stable. With two fingers, turn base, add 20˚ flaps, the plane will automatically slow to 70ish knots. Turn final, 30˚ flaps, the plane will slow down to 60ish (maybe 65ish?). Do not let him pitch throughout this whole process, just trim for the airspeed as needed and combat the ballooning when flaps are applied (palm the yolk to keep it from pushing back), that's it. Work on using the trim for the airspeed he wants, since the power is already set and not being messed with. If the trim is set properly in the beginning of the descent he won't have to touch it again for the rest of the approach (so long as power remains the same). This can all be demonstrated at altitude as well. Let him see and understand the drag factors of each flap setting and how it effects his airspeed when power and trim are relatively constant during a descent. The only real trick to all of this is making the turns at the correct time, and it's pretty intuitive after a couple tries.

If he initially trims for an 80 knot descent at 10˚ and is too fast when he has full flaps selected (say he is at 65 knots rather than the 60 he wanted with full flaps), try trimming out initially at 75 knots the next go around (you will consequently end up 5 knots slower in the end and be at that 60 knots you wanted).

Once you get the concept down that the power and airspeed (through the use of trim) should be constant the whole way down in order to maintain a constant airspeed and descent angle, then you can help him to better understand that when he is on final approach and below the glide-path, he simply pitches up to rejoin it, and when he is high, he simply pitches down. Subsequently, power is required to maintain the desired airspeed when he makes the pitch changes to get back on the glide-path. When he gets back on glide-path, he just returns the power back to the setting it was set to earlier when he trimmed it out abeam the numbers (1500RPM) letting the plane return to the airspeed he had it trimmed for in the first place.

This really is no different then the technique used for the power off (landing) stall; pull the power out to 1500 rpm, flaps 10˚, 20˚, 30˚, trim for 65 knots or whatever.
 
Ditto. Cover the instruments. Public Enemy #1 for inability to maintain airspeed is chasing the ASI and not maintaining the proper pitch attitude. So cover at least the ASI (although you can cover all of them).
 
Ditto. Cover the instruments. Public Enemy #1 for inability to maintain airspeed is chasing the ASI and not maintaining the proper pitch attitude.


You would be surprised how many ATP's will blindly chase airspeed without even considering looking straight ahead over the cowl ...
 
You would be surprised how many ATP's will blindly chase airspeed without even considering looking straight ahead over the cowl ...

Only because they long ago forgot that there's something actually out there past the windscreen, other than just taxi lines when on the ground. :)

On the flip side, many of my rotary wing bretheren will, as they're getting forced lower and slower by falling ceilings and visibility, still be doing their damndest to see something on the ground....anything, even if it means slow trolling at under 50 knots.... and continue on, rather than pick up IFR....ever. The ones that finally do give up just do a precautionary landing somewhere to wait it out.
 
It doesn't sound like he is chasing speeds, but instead letting the airplane dictate the speed instead of anticipating what his actions will cause. If he is not anticipating a slowing in speed when adding flaps and pitching up or an increasing speed when pushing the nose down, he might not be understanding the basic laws of flight and instead just doing what he thinks is correct but not knowing why.

That or I am reading way too much into your examples.
 
It doesn't sound like he is chasing speeds, but instead letting the airplane dictate the speed instead of anticipating what his actions will cause. If he is not anticipating a slowing in speed when adding flaps and pitching up or an increasing speed when pushing the nose down, he might not be understanding the basic laws of flight and instead just doing what he thinks is correct but not knowing why.

That or I am reading way too much into your examples.

I totally agree. Student pilots should understand the consequences of EVERY action in terms of AOA and airspeed. Outside the pattern, make a student hit a given airspeed following flap deployment - a hundred times. I don't think the pattern is where this is going to mastered.
 
Why don't you spend a lesson demonstrating how to trim for an airspeed and then showing him that, once trimmed, power changes will result in altitude changes at the trimmed airspeed?
 
Sounds like someone got rushed into landings before they knew how to fly the plane...

Keep it simple....


When they're learning, make sure to hold at least one thing constant (airspeed, power setting, flap setting, altitude, attitude, etc...) This will allow them to see the affect of the variables.

For this exercise, hold airspeed constant. On the ground, make sure to brief them on WHY your doing this and discuss what controls airspeed. Go out to the practice area, pick an airspeed and have him maintain it. One at a time, have them change configuration.

In a 152, 70KIAS works pretty good for this lesson.

-Start with straight & level.
-Descent
-Climb
-Level Turns
-Climbing Turns
-Descending Turns

Power off:
-Descent
-Descending turns

Repeat all the above with different flap configurations. ALL IS DONE WHILE MAINTAING 70KIAS adjusting power and pitch as necessary.

Once they get the hang of it, cover up the ASI and any other instruments and repeat. At this point, the CFI should be looking for overall smoothness and no HUGE deviations. Just as long as the student recognizes the deviation and starts to fix it. It doesn't have to be exact. Emphasis should be made to relationship of the engine cowl to the horizon, the sound of the engine RPM, the sound of the air rushing by.

Good luck. This, again, is why primacy is so important.
 
I agree with the posts that say teach fundamentals of pitch, power, and airspeed in climbs, descents, and turns in high and low drag configurations out away from the traffic pattern. They need to learn to fly very naturally before they learn to operate in the traffic pattern and land. This mostly boils down to them automatically knowing what to do with pitch and approximate pitch attitudes for different configurations.

Then, when back in the traffic pattern, set hard limits. In the 150 if airspeed hits 60mph or less in a normal (not short field) traffic pattern they are to initiate an immediate go around, I dont care if they are on downwind, base, final, whatever. It means something got sloppy and it's time to go around, now.. no compromise

Also, with airspeed and coordination, they get a very serious talking to about life and death and the very real consequences of not being in control of the aircraft. Having a few real life examples helps drive it home, especially if people at the local airport have died, but at least have a couple accident reports you can point to. If they are learning to land they are approaching solo and its time to get serious and a friendly but serious/concerned talk can help drive home some respect for what they are doing.

The heart to heart and immediately calling a go around once usually straighten people out and clean up some sloppiness.
 
I agree with the posts that say teach fundamentals of pitch, power, and airspeed in climbs, descents, and turns in high and low drag configurations out away from the traffic pattern. They need to learn to fly very naturally before they learn to operate in the traffic pattern and land. This mostly boils down to them automatically knowing what to do with pitch and approximate pitch attitudes for different configurations.

Then, when back in the traffic pattern, set hard limits. In the 150 if airspeed hits 60mph or less in a normal (not short field) traffic pattern they are to initiate an immediate go around, I dont care if they are on downwind, base, final, whatever. It means something got sloppy and it's time to go around, now.. no compromise

I'm not a CFI, but I always wondered why so many CFIs wanted students to nail the numbers right off the bat. When I'm in an unfamiliar aircraft, I'm a little hot.

If I were a CFI, I'd reinforce the scan, making the student call out airspeed every ten seconds.
 
As a kid, I remember flying with my dad. He'd make me reduce speed or gain speed while maintaining altitude. Or, he'd lower flaps and tell me to do what it takes to maintain altitude and airspeed. So many exercises that I continue to benefit from.
 
I'm not a CFI, but I always wondered why so many CFIs wanted students to nail the numbers right off the bat. When I'm in an unfamiliar aircraft, I'm a little hot.

If I were a CFI, I'd reinforce the scan, making the student call out airspeed every ten seconds.

The students I've seen with airspeed problems usually fixate on the indicator, so their problem isn't that they dont look at the indicator, it's that it's almost all they look at and their inputs are too late (a pitch change isn't reflected in airspeed until energy gets a chance to balance out)... so external pitch references and control pressure should already tell them what they need to know before the ASI ever registers a change. They aren't thinking "oh I'm a bit nose high and will be slow, so I'll add a little forward pressure on the yoke and lower the nose a couple degrees, so I can focus on my position and glide path now"...instead they are chasing the airspeed needle which causes delayed responses and over-correction which causes them to become dangerously slow... that's why I set a low limit, it's an alarm that should be going off in their head ("you are not controlling this approach so go around").

It's usually obvious in one trip around the pattern when their inputs are delayed and exaggerated that they haven't internalized the concepts of pitch/power/airspeed and trim. You can watch their eyes and see the fixation.... students like this need to be taken out and learn to fly, not land. I take them out and have them fly a bunch of configurations, particularly with flap and power changes that require positive pitch control for target airspeeds.[/quote]
 
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