student loan worries

Longhaul, FlyingNinja,.. everybody.... I cannot thank you enough for sharing your stories. I hope that this thread will serve others as well as it has me. I have a new level of awareness :sitaware:
 
Flying Ninja said:
Yes, definitely be very careful with financials if you are planning on entering flight training and this career. I recently graduated out of CAPT and I'm about $100K in the hole. I'm at a point where the first year FO pay will not cover my monthly bare minimum expenses with no disposable income. Hence, my flight training has left me at a dead end. I was a career changer, and now I'm going back to what I was doing before so that I can pay off this loan. My certifications all amount to a glorified Private certificate. Imagine that...$100K to exercise your PVT privileges. And to add insult to injury, I won't be flying this year or maybe next year because after training, I'm broke.

If you're going into this field, absolutely do your homework. Ask the questions you know you want to ask but are afraid to. The questions you don't ask could land you in my position...high debt and no flying job.
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wait a minute.. so you don't have everything you need to get at least a regional job? cargo? corporate? CFI gig?
 
Kristie said:
wait a minute.. so you don't have everything you need to get at least a regional job? cargo? corporate? CFI gig?
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You get a dc9 type. There is no CFII certificates in this program. If I recall correctly, yo go in with your 4yr degree and come out with the type and you are then employeable "according to the marketing dept."
 
Kristie said:
wait a minute.. so you don't have everything you need to get at least a regional job? cargo? corporate? CFI gig?
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I walked out of there with my Instrument (I already got my PVT before entering the program but they made me repeat PVT to their standards which was to say I snoozed), Private Multi, Commercial Multi, and a DC-9 type rating. I was one of the few lucky ones that was able to convert my extra time (finished sections under allocated hours) into a Commercial Single. So yes, I do have enough to get into the three airlines that CAPT has a relationship with, namely Pinnacle, ASA, and Focus. They also got American Eagle on board but AE wants 400TT/100ME and no ab initio graduating will have that (they'll get 225TT/65-80ME).

My situation is different. I was too stupid to pour all my money into this career change. I never thought it'd leave me broke to the point that I can't afford to get into the industry. Back to flying my comfortable November One Delta Echo Sierra Kilo for me. Unless you know some company that will hire me with my 459.8/101.2 for a cargo or corporate gig...somehow I doubt it. :)

JEP said:
You get a dc9 type.
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That is correct. You get a DC-9 type...sim used was a MD90-EFD. You do need a 4-year degree and a bucket of Benjamins.
 
Maybe get a "regular" job and banner tow, do Civil Air Patrol, fly skydivers etc. on the weekends to build hours and network? Give aerial tours? I don't know much; hopefully someone can offer some other tips. I think it would be a shame to be commercial rated and not use it...it seems like there has to be something out there, maybe just part-time for now.

Edit: I now see you have 459/101...it doesn't seem like you're too far off from a full-time flying gig that can pay better than first year regional pay.
 
That's the goal right now...get a regular job. I'll consider myself lucky if I can make enough money, pay back my loan, and have enough disposable income to fly from time to time. It's not a question of if I'll ever fly, just when. But as far as the regional career is concerned, I'm 34...it's time to buckle down and not mess around with my future and retirement. I gave it a shot. It didn't work out. It happens.

RE: 459/101
That's all the time I have on the books, and that's all the time I'll have on the books for a LONG time. Not too far off might as well be 1000 hours at this point. I'm broke. End of the line for me until I make enough to fly again. My INST currency expires in 4 months. I won't be flying in the next 4 months.
 
NINJA,

Do you have CFI rating ?
Also, I looked at the CAPT program info before and seem to remember they give a partial refund if not hired ( under conditions ). Did they do this for you ?

Everyone's situation is different. If I were in the situation, I would have to consider working a second job ( at night ? ) to get the few hours I'm lacking to get in a better position to be hired. To be so close and have sacrificed so much, well.....to overcome this would be perhaps even more rewarding than getting the job itself.

However, no one knows your situation better than yourself, and the decision is yours.
 
LIBOR Related loans on the rise!

Just to put in my 2 cents...
i have spent the last 2 years, since my commercial checkride, working in my original carrier to save up enough ca$h to do my CFI tickets and get instructing to build hours with some money in the bank... As far a loans, Key Bank just informed me my loan rate is now up to over 7%, so more cash each month, about 90$ in increased payments, as interest rates continue to rise so will the cost of paying off debt!
 
notawannabee said:
Do you have CFI rating ?
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I don't have a CFI rating. And no, CAPT does not offer you a CFI. I don't recall reading any information on a partial refund if you don't get hired. If you can find documentation to that effect, I'd love to see it.

As it stands, unless someon hires me out of my parent's basement with the hours that I have, there's no way I can afford to be living elsewhere trying to get hours. I think the saying is "so close yet so far" in my case.

Regarding the loan, I also have a loan based on LIBOR and the percentage is 7.5% which basically means I got about $1000 a month in payments. Good times...
 
What would it take to get your CFI rating?

I hate seeing someone so close be so far...there should be something out there that can help you get those extra flying hours! it might take 2 jobs.. it might take living at home longer...eating ramen noodles longer...
 
Kristie said:
What would it take to get your CFI rating?

I hate seeing someone so close be so far...there should be something out there that can help you get those extra flying hours! it might take 2 jobs.. it might take living at home longer...eating ramen noodles longer...
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My plan right now is to get back into my previous career and start making money again. My primary concern is being able to pay my monthly loan payments and I'd like to pay more each month to keep the loan down. On top of that, I have my college loan I have to pay, and then the cell phone, car, etc. So at the end of the day, I'll have very little money as I do want to put money toward my retirement since I haven't contributed in 2 years.

I am going to start reading on the whole CFI thing on my spare time, but it will have to be an absolutely cost free effort. At some point later in life, when I have disposable income, which, who knows when that will be, I will hook up with my CFI here in NY and go for it. It's a long road. But that is my plan. As for going into the regionals, I'm chalking it up as a failure. Maybe when these VLJ air taxis start getting popular I may have a shot at them. But that's all forward looking.
 
Wouldn't freight pay a little better than 1st year regional pay? What kind of hours are needed these days to be a freight dawg?
 
Texguy said:
Wouldn't freight pay a little better than 1st year regional pay? What kind of hours are needed these days to be a freight dawg?
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I grabbed this from Flight Express' website:

Pilots are required to have the Part 135 IFR PIC minimums per 135.243(c):
  • Commercial Single-Engine certificate with an instrument rating
  • 1200 Hours Total
  • 500 Hours Cross Country - point to point
  • 100 Hours Night
  • 75 Hours Instrument total - up to 25 in a simulator allowed
  • 50 Hours Instrument in FLIGHT - simulated (hood) or actual
Ram Air Freight minimums:

Pilots must meet the FAR Part 135.243 flight time requirements for single-pilot IFR, which are:
  • 1,200 Total Time
  • 500 Cross Country (point to point, not necessarily over 50nm)
  • 100 Night
  • 75 IMC or simulated IMC, with 50 in actual flight (i.e., can only count 25 hours of simulator time)
If this is any indication, I'm out of the game for a long time.
 
Texguy said:
Wouldn't freight pay a little better than 1st year regional pay?
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Depends on the job. No matter what, it would probably require 1200TT at a minimum unless you could get on someplace as an F/O in larger equipment (that requires an F/O).

Most better paying freight jobs (FedEx feeders, jets) will require more than 1200. They are around though- I got lucky and got a freight job with 1,201 hours in my logbook that paid double a first year regional F/O salary. That is by far the exception, though- and the amount of work was almost not worth the pay.

To the original poster- try IFL Group out of Pontiac, MI. They fly Convairs, Falcons, and 727's. I've heard they hire pretty low time Convair F/O's. Maybe not quite as low as you have, but the worst they can say is no. Don't have their contact info here in front of me, so you'll have to Google them. Not sure if they're hiring anymore either, haven't been around that area in awhile. I would guess not, but their peak season will start around the end of April and they'll probably be looking soon.
 
Flying Ninja said:
I don't have a CFI rating. And no, CAPT does not offer you a CFI. I don't recall reading any information on a partial refund if you don't get hired. If you can find documentation to that effect, I'd love to see it.

As it stands, unless someon hires me out of my parent's basement with the hours that I have, there's no way I can afford to be living elsewhere trying to get hours. I think the saying is "so close yet so far" in my case.

Regarding the loan, I also have a loan based on LIBOR and the percentage is 7.5% which basically means I got about $1000 a month in payments. Good times...
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I reviewed the CAPT program on the ER website...looks like they just discontinued the program. The article says about 75 graduates have passed through the program and several are in training for flying jobs. It's an interesting article. Especially when they say they are going to direct their energies into other programs / satellite offices. http://www.erau.edu/capt/phaseout.html

1000.00 / month confirms my calculation of 50k loan at prime +1% and all the fees. I calculated $550.00 / month for 15 years through Sallie May.

If at some point you decide to get the extra hours, I would check out http://www.flyaviator.com/?source=jetcareers
They have some of the best prices I've seen, and it's ME on top of that.

Maybe it was a similar program at another school or they were offering the refund at one time and discontinued it. I know the program had an acronym like CAPT, ACE, or CRM and there was a refund option. I was hoping the school was ERU.
 
They did discontinue the program as the press release indicates. It's 57 to date in the article by the way. ;)

Thanks for the flyaviator.com website, but I'm done paying a program for my training. I already made that mistake once and I'll be paying for it for the next 15 years.
 
Flying Ninja said:
Yes, definitely be very careful with financials if you are planning on entering flight training and this career. I recently graduated out of CAPT and I'm about $100K in the hole. I'm at a point where the first year FO pay will not cover my monthly bare minimum expenses with no disposable income. Hence, my flight training has left me at a dead end. I was a career changer, and now I'm going back to what I was doing before so that I can pay off this loan. My certifications all amount to a glorified Private certificate. Imagine that...$100K to exercise your PVT privileges. And to add insult to injury, I won't be flying this year or maybe next year because after training, I'm broke.

If you're going into this field, absolutely do your homework. Ask the questions you know you want to ask but are afraid to. The questions you don't ask could land you in my position...high debt and no flying job.
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Not trying to make fun of you personally, but EVERYBODY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS !!!! You could be the next example!!
 
I'm pretty hard core with the "no debt" philosophy...but here it is --- Never take out a loan for anything! Save up and pay for it when you have the money. That includes college, cars, clothes, etc. The house may be the only exception...but then...ten to fifteen year mortgage max...and plunk down a large down payment.
 
B767Driver said:
I'm pretty hard core with the "no debt" philosophy...but here it is --- Never take out a loan for anything! Save up and pay for it when you have the money. That includes college, cars, clothes, etc. The house may be the only exception...but then...ten to fifteen year mortgage max...and plunk down a large down payment.
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If only we were all as affluent as you are from birth. Sorry pal, I wasn't born with a million dollars in the bank (and I'm not assuming you did either). Point is, not everyone is as blessed as you are with money. Don't insult the rest of us with your feather ruffling please.
 
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