Student issue
- Thread starter Flybywire
- Start date
amjon
Pilot and A Half (for now
Depends how often you fly.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I don't even try to remember them, just makes you look like an idiot when they change...
Mike H
Well-Known Member
None of the ATIS frequencies at any of the airports I fly in to or out of have changed in the last 20 years. In fact, none of the other frequencies-Tower, Ground, CTAF... etc- have changed in the last 20 years either
Could be longer than that- I've only been flying for 20 years.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I've had ATIS, ground, runway numbers change near me in the last year, it happens
Jet
Well-Known Member
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
Instead of giving him a number of flight hours he needs, instead tell him what you want. I flat out tell my students that if then can do x,x,x then I will solo them. If they cant we keep trying till they can. I never talk numbers I talk about proficiency and consistency.
escapepilot
Well-Known Member
I'll admit I quit reading all the posts ablout halfway on page one so if this idea has been mentioned, sorry.
Schedule another flight. Tell him that you will only be a passenger and that if he can complete the flight w/ no mistakes and no help, then he solos. If you HAVE to intercede, then no solo, but do a thorough debrief about what happened and why. If he makes mistakes, allow him time to realize and correct them. Only help if its a safety or regulation issue. If he lines up on the wrong runway, give him time to fix it. If he asks you a question, answer it with "I dunno, what do you think?". Allow him to be PIC and see if he really can handle it. If he handles it, solo him. If he doesn't, then back to lessons, but explain why.
Schedule another flight. Tell him that you will only be a passenger and that if he can complete the flight w/ no mistakes and no help, then he solos. If you HAVE to intercede, then no solo, but do a thorough debrief about what happened and why. If he makes mistakes, allow him time to realize and correct them. Only help if its a safety or regulation issue. If he lines up on the wrong runway, give him time to fix it. If he asks you a question, answer it with "I dunno, what do you think?". Allow him to be PIC and see if he really can handle it. If he handles it, solo him. If he doesn't, then back to lessons, but explain why.
I-Pilot
Well-Known Member
Did you start with this student from zero or was he handed to you? I have a feeling that you're probably not the first instructor he has worked with at the school maybe the 3rd, 4th or 5th instructor? The other instructors don't want him. What i'm getting at is that the school is aware of the situation longer than you have and have not done anything about it other than pass him on to a new instructor everytime. I've had a similar situation. The student wanted to solo and get his private but not willing to put in all the work. I didn't have to dump him. He just quit showing up after I laid down my expectations and he knew he couldn't deliver. The school was also charging him for canceling lessons at the last minute. Don't be pressured by him or the school to sign him off. Make a deal with him and the chief pilot. Before the solo he has to fly with the chief pilot or a senior instrcutor. If he can't impress them, you won't sign him off. Good Luck!
Jet
Well-Known Member
This is solid advice. A lot of students just give up instead of challenging themselves to think it out because they know the instructor will figure it out for them, either by taking the controls or telling them what to do. I remember learning things a lot faster when I figured out my mistakes on my own.
Carbon
Well-Known Member
Don't be sorry, its the truth. "learning is the result of experiences??" well if the instructor intervenes during the experience and makes the decision, how can the student learn? One thing that would be nice if you have the avionics to do it. Next time he lines up for the wrong runway, quickly split the comms and ask tower if thats ok so you can teach your student a lesson. If its not too busy, chances are they won't care and you can see how far your student actually takes it. Bring it down to the point where he can read the numbers and ask him what runway was he cleared to land on, if he realizes its the wrong one...see if he initiates a go-around on his own (correlation
) without you calling for it. Not all the time, but there are many times that those experiences we learn from are mistakes.
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
You said something to the effect of "whoops" when you did that, and fixed it. No harm (I assume you caught it and passed and there was neither a pilot deviation nor an instant upload to YouTube), no foul, lesson learned.
That is very nice for you, but they're written on the chart for a reason
(mostly so that I don't embarrass myself more than I need to that day)I happen to have them memorized for the home base in days of yore since I dialed them in so many times, and make a habit of memorizing them for all the other "hubs" I go to—mostly because I've looked them up so many times, but there's no shame at looking at a chart because I simply don't have the long-term capacity to hang onto the frequencies everywhere I go. I'd rather remember things called "aircraft limitations."
Now, if your student doesn't know WHY to tune ATIS/Ground/Tower/CTAF/Depatcha that's a much bigger (and entirely separate) problem.
He was handed to me. He had 2 prior instructors.
Nihon_Ni
Well-Known Member
Your school has done this student a disservice. He should have never moved on to cross-country and night flying until he completed pre-solo stage. You school has created a situation where they have taken advantage of a customer and now you are the employee who is left to deal with it. (Think about how you would feel if you were in his shoes -- the school has been taking your money for 35 hrs, but you haven't passed any of the major milestones.) I've had students in the past who have had questionable judgment, and dealing with them was a challenge. We had to stick to the syllabus at my school, and that prevented the situation where someone could progress past a given lesson without meeting the completion standards.
I'm curious what your interaction is with him when he makes a wrong decision. Do you let him go ahead with that decision until he discovers it's wrong, or do you immediately correct him? Do you tell him how to do everything, or do you simply tell him the task? Here's an example of what I mean. There's a large body of water that lies between the airport and our training area. In the beginning I instruct pilots to navigate to the training area by following the shoreline. (This route adds maybe a mile to the total distance, but is much safer when considering engine failure scenarios.) As pilots get near solo, I just tell them, "Take me to the practice area." I used to always harp on guys when they would cut across the water until one day I realized it was better for them to have some discovery learning. Now, the first time I tell a pilot to take me to the practice area and he cuts across the ocean, I wait until we are in the middle of crossing and I pull the throttle back and announce "engine failure." In a few seconds the pilot looks around and starts going through the checklist and I can see him trying to decide where we are going to land. I ask him what field he has selected for landing, and wait patiently for him to say we will have to ditch. He now understands from experience what I used to harp on over and over without guys getting it, and I've discovered it only takes one of these lessons for him to never cross the ocean again when there is a safer option. Experience is the best teacher, and sometimes you have to give pilots enough rope to hang themselves (safely) for them to understand. Your job is to allow them to have that "aha moment" without jeopardizing safety.
How do you develope good judegment? By making bad decisions and learning from them. It sounds like he has plenty of bad decisions, but you have to examine why he isn't learning from them. Often, the CFI jumping in too quickly is the problem. Let him make a bad decision and go with it until he discovers why it's bad, just keep him safe in the process.
amjon
Pilot and A Half (for now
I disagree. I did all of my solo flights last and it wasn't because the school was taking advantage of me, I wanted it that way. I could have soloed earlier and then did the other requirements, but I felt more comfortable waiting until the end. At the end I did the first solo, then every flight after that was brief dual (as I had a few weeks/ months in between) and then solo. The third was my first cross country.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Seems a big backwards to me but I'm old school. So, how many hours did you have when you did solo? I'd like to think I could take a guy or gal out of an uncontrolled airport in a simple Cessna 150 and have them solo in 10 to 15 hours. You should be able to teach someone to be safe alone in the plane assuming light winds and good weather. 35 hours to solo? I just don't get it.
amjon
Pilot and A Half (for now
30ish I'm a big chicken and took awhile to get completely comfortable in the plane. Even though I could fly it I didn't want to be alone for awhile.
Nihon_Ni
Well-Known Member
I've never seen a syllabus that recommends this method, but it certainly can be done that way. Personally, I'd rather have the pilot solo earlier for a number of reasons. For the pilot, it's a huge achievement that will keep them motivated. Sometimes we get bogged down during pilot training, especially for pilots who have job and family commitments and without achievement, pilot training can have the tendency to become something where there's no end in sight. Accomplishing the solo flight (and having the CFI and school celebrate it for the accomplishment it really is) will give the pilot a source of motivation when life & training get challenging.
But a more important reason to solo early in pilot training is so that I can assist them in the fledging process while we still have plenty of dual time left. In my experience, teaching decision making is the hardest part of pilot training, and the best way I've found to do that is by reviewing their solo flights and providing scenario-based training on following dual flights. Additionally, by having full dual lessons mixed with full solo lessons in stage 2 & 3 it allows me the opportunity to review the habits they are developing during their solo flights, and work with them on decision making. Decision making is the most important skill, but also the hardest to test and evaluate. It's easy to make decisions well enough to pass a check-ride, but that doesn't necessarily equate to having the skills required for real life.
YMMV.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
This. As a relatively recent student (within the last few years) and still having training somewhat fresh in my mind, this was effective. I stretched my solo stuff as far as I could, asking for different airports and clearing things with my CFI. I also scared myself a couple times and got lost a couple times and all of it was educational. Now, my CFI was a graybeard with over 3,000 dual-given, so he had a feel for what I could and couldn't handle. He trusted me more than I often trusted myself. I'm not sure a "newish" CFI would have had the same seasoning to make those assessments of me. I just had to trust him.