Student afraid of banking

DaveC

DaveC

Well-Known Member
I have been flying with a student for about 10 hours now. He had about 40 hours before I started with him, but all of it was about 30 years ago. He says he was almost ready for the checkride but had some family and work issues come up that prevented him from finishing, and now that he's semi retired he finally has time to finish. Of course I can't verify this with his original instructor, who is no longer on this earth.

The problem is that he simply won't bank the plane over about 15 degrees. He has no issues with stalls or any other maneuvers. I've showed him that the plane (172) is stable in a bank, even trimmed it out at 45 degrees and handed over the controls to him to try to get him to trust the airplane, but as soon as he has the controls he quickly rolls back to near wings level.

Has anyone else had this issue before? I've had people who were afraid of banking, but they were also afraid of stalls, slow flight, just about anything but straight and level. I might try getting him to do steep turns under the hood, and perhaps if he doesn't see the entire world tilting it won't scare him as much. Other that that I'm just waiting patiently to see if this problem works itself out. Does anyone have a solution that's worked for them?
 
DaveC said:
The problem is that he simply won't bank the plane over about 15 degrees.
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Does left turn versus right turn make a difference? He may be afraid of falling out the door. You might show him an extreme slipping turn to demonstrate what it really feels like when there is some force attempting to slide him along the seat out the door.
 
When he banks does he keep his head straight or tilt it left/right to make things always look level.
 
At only 10 hours and after a 30 year break, he is basically a new student again. Anything he did 30 years ago, though it may count in his logbook, shouldnt in yours eyes. If you were 16 and just got your drivers license and drove for about 6 months and then took a 30 year brake, you wouldnt exactly be a proficient driver once you started again again-even after 10 hours of practice. I would just give him some time and encouragement and my guess would be it will work itself out. Or take him up on an Acrobatics ride and show him what a plane is really able to do...then maybe 30 degrees wont seem so bad :D
 
So there is something going on where your student is afraid of "healing" over (banking).

1) I wonder how he is on a sailboat. Some people are fine on motorboats, but when on a sailboat in some decent wind the vessel tends to "heal" and for some people this makes them nervous. They are afraid the vessel will continue to "heal" until out of control and possibly be their demise (especially in a gust and they do not understand how to control the boat -- I knew someone like this).

2) Straight-and-level and stalls seem more like driving as far as visual perception is concerned (a stall is like a decent on a hill, with the occasional turn, hopefully not too many). For straight-and-level and stalls the pilot is looking ahead even if during the stall the plane banks or spins the pilot is still looking ahead and focused on recovery.

In a bank the sensation is more like one is hanging in the air and this may evoke fears -- especially for someone who is afraid of heights. In a bank a pilot looks out the window to clear traffic and also during ground reference maneuvers -- if this guy has any problems with becoming dizzy this may also make him nervous.
 
If he can't get it past 15 degrees he can't pass the PTS. I'd tell him, "I'd be happy to keep signing you off for solo patters around the field, but if you can't execute the maneuvers in the PTS you will not get a license."

I was never very patient with that sort of attitude.
 
mshunter said:
Make him do a roll in a 172, that'll show him how capible the airplane is.




















:sarcasm:
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Lol, I was just thinking, "hell roll him upside down, then nothing will be as terrifying as that, and he'll do steep turns without the slightest bit of trepidation!" :sarcasm:
 
Cover the attitude indicator. Go out on a windy day and do rectangular patterns, forcing him to really bank to keep the ground track.
 
Could always do a slow flight steep turn. It is what I do with students that always seem very timid with banking the airplane in slow flight.
 
I HATE banking more than 10-15 degrees. It has nothing to do with what I believe the plane will do, but more with the sight difference. If I can't see the ground (above the clouds, etc.), then it doesn't bother me. I really think just being forced to bank more over time has helped.
 
First, I'd do a ground lesson about cross-controlled stalls focusing on what happens when trying to make a tight base-to-final turn while keeping the bank angle shallow. Stress that sometimes a shallow bank angle can be deadly when a steeper angle is necessary. Then, I'd go fly a lesson and spend the entire time making turns letting him gradually build his confidence. I'd cross my arms and tell him "there's nothing you can do that I can't undo so just make some turns gradually increasing the bank angle until you feel comfortable". And if he'd agree to it and if he feels it would help, I'd go beyond steep to 60 degrees then back to 45.
 
tgrayson said:
Does left turn versus right turn make a difference? He may be afraid of falling out the door. You might show him an extreme slipping turn to demonstrate what it really feels like when there is some force attempting to slide him along the seat out the door.
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Totally me when I first started.

shdw said:
When he banks does he keep his head straight or tilt it left/right to make things always look level.
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Spot on. This is fun to watch though. I've actually had to reach over and straiten somebodies head once, they wouldn't believe me they were tilting their noggins.

Ian J said:
Is he with Bank of America? I'd be scared too. :D
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I'm 1.5 payments away from being done with them. I can't wait!

This thread just kept giving and giving. Thanks guys. Well done!
 
Turns around a point. At 500 feet. Stay low enough so that the student has firm visual contact with familiar terrain features, and start far enough out to require shallow-to-medium banks, and gradually work it in to require medium-to-steep banks.

I've found this technique to work for students afraid of steep turns.
 
DaveC said:
I have been flying with a student for about 10 hours now. He had about 40 hours before I started with him, but all of it was about 30 years ago. He says he was almost ready for the checkride but had some family and work issues come up that prevented him from finishing, and now that he's semi retired he finally has time to finish. Of course I can't verify this with his original instructor, who is no longer on this earth.

The problem is that he simply won't bank the plane over about 15 degrees. He has no issues with stalls or any other maneuvers. I've showed him that the plane (172) is stable in a bank, even trimmed it out at 45 degrees and handed over the controls to him to try to get him to trust the airplane, but as soon as he has the controls he quickly rolls back to near wings level.

Has anyone else had this issue before? I've had people who were afraid of banking, but they were also afraid of stalls, slow flight, just about anything but straight and level. I might try getting him to do steep turns under the hood, and perhaps if he doesn't see the entire world tilting it won't scare him as much. Other that that I'm just waiting patiently to see if this problem works itself out. Does anyone have a solution that's worked for them?
Click to expand...

I'd tell your student not to worry about banking. After a while, the paychecks will get bigger, and the fear of banking will go certainly away.
 
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