strike yourself out of a job
- Thread starter notawannabee
- Start date
shooter13
New Member
???
I don't have airline experience but I do have non-union experience ( sorta)
My employer in the steel industry is non-union. While other mills are shutting down around the country we are growing. Not becuase we are taking less pay than them. We aren't. I am overpaid compared to my peers. My company isn't asking me to do crazy unsafe stuff. in fact, i cost the company over $225,000 last week because I refused to work on something that was unsafe. I wasn't fired, or anything. In fact I was later told that I had done the right thing in resisting the pressure to work unsafe even though it negatively affected our profits and our paychecks.
There are non-union companies that are ok places too. Just wanted to throw that out there.
I don't have airline experience but I do have non-union experience ( sorta)
My employer in the steel industry is non-union. While other mills are shutting down around the country we are growing. Not becuase we are taking less pay than them. We aren't. I am overpaid compared to my peers. My company isn't asking me to do crazy unsafe stuff. in fact, i cost the company over $225,000 last week because I refused to work on something that was unsafe. I wasn't fired, or anything. In fact I was later told that I had done the right thing in resisting the pressure to work unsafe even though it negatively affected our profits and our paychecks.
There are non-union companies that are ok places too. Just wanted to throw that out there.
When I was a manager, I hated unions, as they were a huge pain in the butt.
But, as an employee, I wish I had a union sometimes, as I wouldn't be as worried about my job being outsourced to India.
There are pluses and minuses for both sides, and a lot of it depends on the industry. I think the unions are a major reason there are still manufacturing jobs in this country, but if you ask a manager, they'll tell you that the unions are one of the primary reasons for jobs leaving the country.
For me, it's about dealing truthfully and honestly with unions. As I said, as a manager, the rules regarding the union contract made it difficult for me to get my job done and thus I regarded them as a pain in the butt. BUT, working with the union officials, I found ways to get my job done and go with the union's rules. I understood the union's position, I agreed with them on more points than I disagreed with them, and I respected them. It's all give and take. Lay all your cards out on the table, identify a handful of issues (constraints) you won't part with, and negotiate the rest. You have to be willing to lay out all your cards and deal in the open.
The only ones who really know what's going on are the ones involved in the negotiations with Delta Airlines. Aside from one or two people in this discussion, I think the rest of it is supposition and hearsay from the people - myself included - who have no idea what is really being discussed.
But, as an employee, I wish I had a union sometimes, as I wouldn't be as worried about my job being outsourced to India.
There are pluses and minuses for both sides, and a lot of it depends on the industry. I think the unions are a major reason there are still manufacturing jobs in this country, but if you ask a manager, they'll tell you that the unions are one of the primary reasons for jobs leaving the country.
For me, it's about dealing truthfully and honestly with unions. As I said, as a manager, the rules regarding the union contract made it difficult for me to get my job done and thus I regarded them as a pain in the butt. BUT, working with the union officials, I found ways to get my job done and go with the union's rules. I understood the union's position, I agreed with them on more points than I disagreed with them, and I respected them. It's all give and take. Lay all your cards out on the table, identify a handful of issues (constraints) you won't part with, and negotiate the rest. You have to be willing to lay out all your cards and deal in the open.
The only ones who really know what's going on are the ones involved in the negotiations with Delta Airlines. Aside from one or two people in this discussion, I think the rest of it is supposition and hearsay from the people - myself included - who have no idea what is really being discussed.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Doug Taylor said:
Not the ALPA. I'd say the technology and science of aerodynamics to be quite honest.
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Glad somebody said it. Or else there wouldn't be any "Good" CFI gigs. Eventually it will get to the point where the employer will be unable to fill positions and thus required to add some sort of benefit to the package. The best pay will attract the best talent.shooter13 said:
Edit: it's not that I'm anti-union, it's just not a panacea like some people think it is.
bob loblaw
New Member
tonyw said:
Well there isn't a simple answer for this. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but didn't Southwest hedge their fuel better than the other carriers? I believe Southwest can offer a lower fare because of fuel hedging, fleet standardization, and lower wages just to name a few. I also feel that the operating costs at Southwest, Jetblue, and Airtran are lower which means than can offer reduced fares and do more business.
GrantHubbell
New Member
Champcar said:
Airline pilots will, any time soon, not be the highest payed due to the low profit margin. Fuel costs, as well as the high paid management contribute to the low profit margin. Also don't foget that you can fly across the country for $99 one-way.
Champcar, if you want to be part of the highest paying profession, then get the he!! out of the airline industry. Get into business or something else, but my god, don't work for an airlines management! We'll all kill ya!
As for me, airline pilot is a profession that looks better and better to get out of every day. I am only 15 so I have a ton of time, but if I was 23 or so, I would not want to work for an airline. I'd consider another alternative, such as a financial job, like a controller, or CFO of a company.
<end of rant>
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
tonyw said:
Tony
C'mon dude, you are involved in aviation there is no simple answer to that. You can twist that Southwest question around anyway you want.
Southwest is simply in a world of their own, they are a heavily unionized airline, that operates as a non-union airline.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
Okay so I need to chime in since everyone else has. If it wasnt for the union my father would have lost each job he had with the 2 different airlines at least a dozen times over his 30 year career as a pilot not to mention his pention cut alomst in half by UA and has yet to be given back to him. Guess what? That union sends him letters on a regular basis and email updates ect. United has not sent him one thing nor have the made any attempt to assure him things will be okay.
I remember the few bad times there were back then when my dad would have to take out second mortgages, sell our cars and pretty much do what he had to do to keep food on the table and a job he loved more than anything. That would have been very hard without a union. I think certain people who are into aviation and want to be an airline pilot so bad tend to look at an airline pilot as some type of rockstar or celebrity that has it all and nothing can go wrong in that business. When they see the big picture and what is accually happening in this industry they get discouraged and think all the pilots are just complaining and want more money yada yada. Trust me they have every right to complain. This is their pride getting stepped on and biggest of all their passion to make a living doing something they dreamed about doing since childhood,they do not want to look for another career and will do what it takes to not have to. I am just speaking from experience growing up in a family of airline pilots so dont bash me please
. Good luck to the Delta guys, you all have my blessing.
I remember the few bad times there were back then when my dad would have to take out second mortgages, sell our cars and pretty much do what he had to do to keep food on the table and a job he loved more than anything. That would have been very hard without a union. I think certain people who are into aviation and want to be an airline pilot so bad tend to look at an airline pilot as some type of rockstar or celebrity that has it all and nothing can go wrong in that business. When they see the big picture and what is accually happening in this industry they get discouraged and think all the pilots are just complaining and want more money yada yada. Trust me they have every right to complain. This is their pride getting stepped on and biggest of all their passion to make a living doing something they dreamed about doing since childhood,they do not want to look for another career and will do what it takes to not have to. I am just speaking from experience growing up in a family of airline pilots so dont bash me please
. Good luck to the Delta guys, you all have my blessing.
GrantHubbell
New Member
Hey, I just discovered a neat thing on salary.com
and the management at Delta is not making as much as you would think:
http://swz.salary.com/execcomp/layoutscripts/excl_companyreport.asp?companyid=C1001995
and the management at Delta is not making as much as you would think:
http://swz.salary.com/execcomp/layoutscripts/excl_companyreport.asp?companyid=C1001995
GrantHubbell
New Member
Here YOU go... =-)Maximillian_Jenius said:
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...de=&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=8&x=64&y=9
that was 2004.. lots happened between then and now! we're talking 2 years difference!GrantHubbell said:
doncha think it's a little weird that the senior VP's are making more than the CEO? the CEO is the one that always takes the fall... and the senior VP's are the ones who rake in the money and golden parachutes! I mean look at those long term incentives!! I think that says a lot right there - even though it is still 2 years past.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Kristie said:
I guess all CEOs are corporate pigs right? I love it how they are either hailed as heros or crucified.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Kristie said:
I wasnt putting words in anyones mouth. Just asking a simple question. Sorry it came across as such. It seems as though management (CEO, CFO, COO, VP) are always depicted as blood thirsty villians. I would like to see how alot of people would act in their same position.