Street Captains

mtsu_av8er

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
A friend and I were talking a few days ago about some airlines with "PFJ" programs hiring street captains (because upgrading internally just wouldn't happen). He asked what I thought about that, because he knew that I have pretty strong feelings about PFT/PFJ, and I realized that I don't know how I feel about it.

So, without turning this into a "Lowering the bar/PFJ/PFT" hashout, what do you guys think? If somebody that is qualified, and did NOT PFJ, gets hired as a street captain, is this a bad thing?
 
It's definetly something I'd consider doing and would be the only way you'd see me flying for a regional. The problem is senority. You'd never hold a line for years because you'd aways have someone upgrading that has been there longer. I'm sure if they gave you a senority number above the highest FO there would be more b!tching then a woman at a marriage counselor, and for good reason.
 
I've always thought it kind of funny that people bash the heck out of Gulfstream and their PFJ SIC positions, yet don't see anything wrong with working for them as a street captain. It seems to me that working for Gulfstream gives tacit approval for their SIC program. Kind of like bitching about Nike using underage labor, then taking a job in marketing for them. Rather a strange disconnect, eh?

My answer? If the company does bad stuff, good people shouldn't work for them.
 
There was talk here about going the street CA route instead of lowering the FO upgrade mins. We went the FO route by mutual consent of the union and the company. I was shocked to hear that one of the higher ups in the company wanted to lower FO mins in order to reward the guys that stick it out as FOs here rather than jumping to another carrier. If it had been anyone else over at corporate, I wouldn't have believed it, but this guy's different than most of the people over there. I'm sure there were several that looked at it as a way to help staunch the FO bleeding over here, and it has somewhat.

We've still got guys bitter over the last round of hiring street CAs. That was years ago and these guys are just now getting off reserve. Some like to play the "I've been here 3/4 years and can only hold 10 days off" line. My response is "Well, you chose to come here, and knew this was gonna happen." The seniority list gets turned upside down, and you run a huge risk with street CAs. After the CA's first 100 hours, he could wind up paired with a spanking new FO that has 50 hours in the aircraft. To me, that's a recipe for trouble.

If the opportunity presented itself to jump straight into a CA position at a reputable carrier, I might take it. The odds of that happening are slim. Why? Those carriers have plenty of qualified FOs standing in line to upgrade. Most of the places that hire street CAs can't keep FOs long enough to upgrade. The question is what would you give up to get that TPIC time? Would you go from being an FO at Eagle with better pay and QOL to be a street CA at PCL and be on reserve for 3-4 years with below average pay and QOL?
 
Gulfstream has been hiring street CA's on and off again over the past year or so. I have to say, I've seriously considered it. At my 2 year point here I might make the jump.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
A friend and I were talking a few days ago about some airlines with "PFJ" programs hiring street captains (because upgrading internally just wouldn't happen). He asked what I thought about that, because he knew that I have pretty strong feelings about PFT/PFJ, and I realized that I don't know how I feel about it.

So, without turning this into a "Lowering the bar/PFJ/PFT" hashout, what do you guys think? If somebody that is qualified, and did NOT PFJ, gets hired as a street captain, is this a bad thing?
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I don't see anything wrong with it. I think the learning curve might be a bit steep depending on where you're coming from. Having no turbine and 121 experience might make things pretty challenging.
 
Nope. I wouldn't do it for a PFJ employer. It's like getting a job sweeping floors in a brothel, you might not be a call girl, but you still work in a brothel. There is no way to make it "look better" on a resume.

kellwolf said:
We've still got guys bitter over the last round of hiring street CAs.
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We hired a dozen or so street capts several years ago. There has never been any animosity toward the guys hired off the street. I doubt the company would ever do it again though.

kellwolf said:
Those carriers have plenty of qualified FOs standing in line to upgrade.
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Our case was a bit different. We did have plenty of qualified FOs, but none of them would accept an upgrade. All of them were making Captains pay (bypass agreement) and had none of the responsibility so there was no incentive for them to seek a capt bid.
 
NJA_Capt said:
We hired a dozen or so street capts several years ago. There has never been any animosity toward the guys hired off the street. I doubt the company would ever do it again though.
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I didn't phrase that one properly. It sounded like I was talking about the FOs that couldn't upgrade being bitter, but in fact it's the guys that were the street CAs that seem to be the bitter ones. The FOs, when they upgraded, could hold lines almost immediately. Some of the street CAs are just now getting off reserve, hence the bitterness. 'Course I might be bitter after being on reserve here for 4 years, too....

Our case was a bit different. We did have plenty of qualified FOs, but none of them would accept an upgrade. All of them were making Captains pay (bypass agreement) and had none of the responsibility so there was no incentive for them to seek a capt bid.
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That's the difference between a company with a good contract and, well......here. In order for an FO to get bypass pay, he has to be eligible and put in for a CA bid. THEN if someone junior to him gets awarded the position, they get put in class. They don't even get bypass pay, I believe. If I was at Netjets and wasn't in a hurry to leave there, I probably would have done the same thing those FOs were doing.
 
I have a buddy that was hired as a street CA at Big Sky, about a month and a half ago. They were doubling their fleet size and a bunch of the Montana FOs didnt want to move east to be a CA (or didnt have ATP mins). I would have done that, but would probably be quite hesitant about being a street CA at Gulfstream.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
A friend and I were talking a few days ago about some airlines with "PFJ" programs hiring street captains (because upgrading internally just wouldn't happen). He asked what I thought about that, because he knew that I have pretty strong feelings about PFT/PFJ, and I realized that I don't know how I feel about it.

So, without turning this into a "Lowering the bar/PFJ/PFT" hashout, what do you guys think? If somebody that is qualified, and did NOT PFJ, gets hired as a street captain, is this a bad thing?
Click to expand...

I see what's going on here, you're trying to cut your time spent at a regional/commuter in half and get to the next level that much faster because you think they might treat you poorly and you know we're going to hold accountable for your "No Complaining Clause" if you start to whine. :)

If that's not a run-on sentence I don't know what is!
 
EDUC8-or said:
I see what's going on here, you're trying to cut your time spent at a regional/commuter in half and get to the next level that much faster because you think they might treat you poorly and you know we're going to hold accountable for your "No Complaining Clause" if you start to whine. :)
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LMAO - I love it!!

Hey, if Lloyd starts whining about how horrible life is, please just kick me in the jaw and tell my mother I'm a p . . . kitty cat. ;) Not going to happen. If I find that life at an airline is that bad, well, I'll just find something else to do.

:buck:

If that's not a run-on sentence I don't know what is!
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Oh, we're all guilty of it!:D
 
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