Stranded RST Pax....A Different Spin

Yep, that's why i said it was 7.62x51mm (which is the same as .308). The case necks look a bit short for that though, which is perhaps why BDHill begs to differ.
precisely why I beg to differ, the necks are too short compared to the case length, and the bulge at the base of the case, I have never seen that before.

Perhaps from belted machine gun rounds? But I have zero experience with those.
 
A serious question, how is this Mesaba's fault? You're asking an agent from another company to take responsibility for another companies passengers? That would be like me running out of gas in front of a BP and asking the cashier to help push my car to the Exxon down the street.

The dispatcher dropped the ball when selecting that airport.

The Captain. In the air you have sole operational control. Atleast thats the way we have it. Continental and XE can't blame their own people so blame Mesaba. Also it was an NWA station till a year or two ago when the did the out you go bring you back as XJ switcharoo.
 
The Captain. In the air you have sole operational control. Atleast thats the way we have it. Continental and XE can't blame their own people so blame Mesaba. Also it was an NWA station till a year or two ago when the did the out you go bring you back as XJ switcharoo.

Ummmm, it was the DoT, not CO/XE conducting this investigation.
 
Your response to my post makes this much sense.....

Where did I mention the investigation?

CO/XJT isn't making the claims about Mesaba, the investigators are. Stating that Co/XJT is blaiming Mesaba with the information we have would be completely false.
 
Seriously?

The Captain. In the air you have sole operational control. Atleast thats the way we have it. Continental and XE can't blame their own people so blame Mesaba. Also it was an NWA station till a year or two ago when the did the out you go bring you back as XJ switcharoo.

This whole thread is about the DoT's report on the incident. It's not CO and XE doling out blame as you accuse, it's them.

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2009/dot12709.htm

cute graphic though. you're really good at that.
 
Seriously?



This whole thread is about the DoT's report on the incident. It's not CO and XE doling out blame as you accuse, it's them.

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2009/dot12709.htm

cute graphic though. you're really good at that.


A serious question, how is this Mesaba's fault? You're asking an agent from another company to take responsibility for another companies passengers? That would be like me running out of gas in front of a BP and asking the cashier to help push my car to the Exxon down the street.

The dispatcher dropped the ball when selecting that airport.

Quote I responded to. Reading comprehension you aren't good at that. Maybe when I quoted wheelsup and bolded that part it was to confusing. It was the bold portion that I was responding to. Adding to the facts about operational control and in ground ops at this station and yes insisting the blame is not being placed where it should be.
 
The Captain. In the air you have sole operational control. Atleast thats the way we have it. Continental and XE can't blame their own people so blame Mesaba. Also it was an NWA station till a year or two ago when the did the out you go bring you back as XJ switcharoo.
CAL and xjet aren't blaming anyone.

Reading comprehension not so goods?
 
Well if the Secretary of Transportation is weighing in on this it is downright laughable. Frankly this crap wouldn't happen pre 911. All this talk by TSA and DOT of "lack of common sense" is pure and utter BS. Lack of common sense is shown daily by a bureaucracy more concerned with covering their own backsides. As someone who has had to listen to some silly SIDA briefing and received the generic threat of a 20k$ fine if I don't watch a elevator door close behind me, I can see why NO ONE would take responsibility to use their common sense and let the folks into the airport. Why the milquetoast press hasn't pointed it out, and the DOT bigshouts open their big fat mouths without intense scrutiny is a joke.
 
You know, I read it on another board...but just like at sea, if some ship is in distress, even if it's your sworn enemy, you go and rescue them. This aircraft was clearly in distress, Mesaba ops had the power to help or not help. It certainly appears that they did very little in terms of physical help, a lav service, finding stairs, a ladder etc....They additionally appeared to have given out bad info, we can only speculate why. My guess is it would be less work for them to have 47 pax still in the plane.

I don't know what the status of the FBO was...

As far as deplaning the people.....I'd be hesitent to deplane people in a thunderstorm/rain when I don't know if I have the means to get them inside a building. Would Mesaba employee have opened up the door? It sure sounds like they didn't want to be complicit in the "crime" of letting people into a non-TSA area.

So to just say "let the people down," at 1am in TSRA with no place to go may not be smart. Sure I'd let the FO off to go scout things out but I don't think it's as simple as many think.
 
Supposedly XE Dispatch called XJ ops in RST prior to the divert and arranged for services, wich was part of the reason why they went there in the first place! I guess XJ didn't quite hold up their end of the bargain.
Yeah but that was before they had an Delta North Airbus divert and it's crew timed out. So I'm sure if they hadn't had to take care of their own IROPs, they could have accomidated the XE flight as had been arranged.
 
Well if the Secretary of Transportation is weighing in on this it is downright laughable. Frankly this crap wouldn't happen pre 911. All this talk by TSA and DOT of "lack of common sense" is pure and utter BS. Lack of common sense is shown daily by a bureaucracy more concerned with covering their own backsides. As someone who has had to listen to some silly SIDA briefing and received the generic threat of a 20k$ fine if I don't watch a elevator door close behind me, I can see why NO ONE would take responsibility to use their common sense and let the folks into the airport. Why the milquetoast press hasn't pointed it out, and the DOT bigshouts open their big fat mouths without intense scrutiny is a joke.

Yup. The TSA works so hard to create this climate of paranoia, then blames people for a "lack of common sense" in a situation like this.

TSA is a waste of taxpayer money and a threat to personal liberty. Thanks Dubya.
 
The Captain. In the air you have sole operational control. Atleast thats the way we have it. Continental and XE can't blame their own people so blame Mesaba. Also it was an NWA station till a year or two ago when the did the out you go bring you back as XJ switcharoo.

On second thought, I agree. It was futile to attempt a response to this post. It is incoherent in just about every conceivable way. However, I wasn’t kidding about the picture comment. You really are good at that.
 
"Mesaba is a wholly owned subsidiary of Northwest Airlines, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta Air Lines."

Perhaps it is just really late at night, but I find this sentence amusing.
 
So I went back to FlyChicaga's post with the link. I listened to all the recordings. On the 2:57am call with the hub coordinator, he told the captain that she had a small window to get out of Rochester by taking off to the east and heading south then loop around the weather to head north to MSP. My qestion is if Dispatch has a good route and there's a small window to get out, would you feel safe going with that option? Like the Hub Coordinator said, dispatch isn't going to let you fly or route you through or in any bad weather.
 
My qestion is if Dispatch has a good route and there's a small window to get out, would you feel safe going with that option? Like the Hub Coordinator said, dispatch isn't going to let you fly or route you through or in any bad weather.

Eh, I disagree. I've had dispatch tell me, "Don't worry, level 1 and 2 stuff near Memphis, but otherwise you guys will be fine. I don't see the need for all this extra gas." Then we deviate around a massive level 5 thunderstorm that produced tornadoes in Memphis, and we had to go-around for storm at our destination (winds 22 G 58), only to divert and land just at minimum reserve fuel.

I've found that most of our dispatchers are pretty good. However, they are normally working 30-40 flights at a time, so they don't always sit down and examine things very closely. They want to get the flights out, so they'll do everything they can to do so. I've had to many times say, "No, we're just not going."
 
Agree with Flychicaga. I've found that dispatchers are too overloaded to give you safe advice, I've always had to discover stuff for myself and then show them. Nothing I mind, I used to be a dispatcher, I understand. However, Sometimes you still can't make them see what you see and you just have to tell them, "no". I've never had one not understand why, "it's just one time this guy on day four, he did it and said it was fine so I thought maybe since other guys did it once its ok" kinda story. Eh, maybe it is, we'll stick on the ground and find out.
 
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