Straight CJ vs King Air 200

Fly_Unity

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
Our company is looking to purchase either a CJ1 (or straight CJ) or a King Air 200 and has asked me to do some research on them both. I got a Conklin report, but REALLY having a hard time believing the numbers they gave. What Im looking for is from someone who operates one or both of these planes:


Direct hourly operating cost for the CJ
Direct hourly operating cost B200

Payload with full Fuel CJ
Payload with full fuel B200
 
Slightly off topic, but how tall are you? Ever sat in the cockpit of a CJ1? I'm 6'1" and I found it to be cripplingly uncomfortable. Not that your boss cares...

I spent more time in the B200, and although it's slower and louder, I say it's a better airplane for the probable mission profile. It's been a few years, so I can't really remember the payload numbers, but wing lockers on the King Air give it a lot of utility. We flew a heavily loaded (every seat occupied plus lots of bags) B200 from the west coast to central Colorado nonstop once (had to stop for gas on the return trip). But I don't think the CJ1 could have pulled it off.

If I was an owner-pilot, maybe the CJ would look better to me. But otherwise the King Air seems like a better, well-rounded option.
 
It's been a while since I looked at the numbers, but the CJ's only advantage is it beats the King Air to the fuel pumps by about 5 minutes.
 
I think until you step up to a CJ3, or even better, a CJ4, the earlier CJ's just aren't worth looking at compared to a solid B200. I don't have numbers off hand, but the useful load and range of the CJ is going to be worse than the B200, you'd be more runway limited into small fields, and on a typical trip, if the CJ can even match the B200 in terms of taking you and your stuff there without a fuel stop, it'd only beat the B200 by 5 or 10 minutes.

As mentioned earlier, the CJ3, and especially the CJ4, are significant upgrades from the earlier CJ's.
 
Depending on the condition of the planes in question, your maintenance cost will probably be higher in the 200. If you have to move a lot of stuff, you won't do it in the CJ.
Which plane wil support 85% of your missions the best? All things considered, this is the only question with regards to which one to purchase.
 
We operate both a straight CJ and a B200. There is no comparison between the two really. With full tanks in the CJ you've got a five hundred mile airplane for a pilot and maybe two pax. In the B200 with full tanks you're going to be flying for a long time with lots of people. The two aircraft are tough to compare. What is the typical mission?
 
I heard these arguments before. Some of our customers want the "jet" just because they can afford it. Were a 135 on demand charter company. We already have two King Air's (C90B, B100) so if the mission fits a King Air, thats what we will use. Our range will be between 100-1000 miles.

Im still wanting the numbers I asked for in the OP. Like I said Im hearing two different things with the B200. (500lbs full fuel payload vs loading it full of passengers with full fuel).

Pay2, are you serious about a 500 mile airplane with full tanks on the CJ?
 
I'd say the answer depends largely on whether you want turbojet vs turbine PIC time in your logbook :D
 
Pay2 said:
We operate both a straight CJ and a B200. There is no comparison between the two really. With full tanks in the CJ you've got a five hundred mile airplane for a pilot and maybe two pax. In the B200 with full tanks you're going to be flying for a long time with lots of people. The two aircraft are tough to compare. What is the typical mission?
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Long time since I've flown a straight CJ but my thought was more like 700; still is pale compared to the 200...

OP: you can get into a CJ1, CJ1+, or CJ2 for about the same money right now and have a much better comparison. Go for the 85% rule.

MikeOH58 said:
How about a CJ1+ or 2+? 4 isn't worth the money from what i've been told.
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The CJ4 over the CJ3 just gives you more cost in the long run.....not much more to brag about (except maybe the second MFD).
 
Fly_Unity said:
I heard these arguments before. Some of our customers want the "jet" just because they can afford it. Were a 135 on demand charter company. We already have two King Air's (C90B, B100) so if the mission fits a King Air, thats what we will use. Our range will be between 100-1000 miles.

Im still wanting the numbers I asked for in the OP. Like I said Im hearing two different things with the B200. (500lbs full fuel payload vs loading it full of passengers with full fuel).

Pay2, are you serious about a 500 mile airplane with full tanks on the CJ?
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That's been our experience with the CJ. With our B200 we've got about 1400 lbs payload with full fuel. That's 7 people with 3600# of fuel. Try getting 7 people in a CJ. It really comes down to what the boss wants. We have both the CJ and the 200 because some passengers don't want to show up in something with props.
 
Pay2 said:
T...... With our B200 we've got about 1400 lbs payload with full fuel. That's 7 people with 3600# of fuel.........
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B200 has a 12500 MGTOW. For you to put 1400 lbs of people in it PLUS 3600 lbs of fuel totals up to = 5000 lbs....... if my math is correct, you'd have to have a B200 with a 7500 lb Empty Weight to do that. You got a B200 that is that light? Most are between 8000 lbs and 8500 lbs empty.

I flew a B200 for many years, average lengths were about 400 - 500 NM, but we did lots of trips out to 1000 NM, many of those non-stop (with a nice tailwind, and appropriate reserves) I'd have rather had, in retrospect - and my advice to you would be to look at - either an older King Air 350, or even a straight King Air 300. Fuel burns are just a bit more than a B200 for either (1050 SHP vs. 850) but they are also a tad faster than a B200, AND they are both truly "fill up the seats and fill it up with fuel, and go" machines.
 
The CJ1 I just flew BOW, was 6600, max T/O was 10,400. Can hold about 3400 lbs of fuel for about a 3 to 4 hour leg. So, if you got full fuel, you got about 500 lbs for stuff. So maybe 3 people. The plane burned about 800 1st hour, 700 2nd, averages less then 600 after. Can't get above 35 with it being heavy, wastes a ton of fuel and time. The plane is really tail heavy as well. So wt/balance with a lot of people can be tricky. I would go with a king air, the CJ unless it was cj2 or bigger, Cj or cj1 is a waste of a plane if you need to move people.
 
I flew a B200 for a while and I distinctly remember not being able to top it off and fill every seat. This is partly why some of the military B200s have a higher MTOW. Beech wanted to keep the airplane from requiring a type rating but it most certainly CAN perform better. It's just limited by it's type certificate.
 
It depends on the year of the B200. The one I very occasionally fly on is a 2006 and with full fuel it can take 1 person plus their bag. That's it. It's not an all seats/full fuel/full bags airplane. If you want that, get a 350. Much better airplane IMO.

Plus don't believe the people that say you can fly it at 14.5 because the military does and it's a type rating thing. It's not. The C-12 is very different structurally than your run of the mill B200 and they are not the same. Playing with fire if you fly it over gross.


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N519AT said:
It depends on the year of the B200. The one I very occasionally fly on is a 2006 and with full fuel it can take 1 person plus their bag. That's it. It's not an all seats/full fuel/full bags airplane. If you want that, get a 350. Much better airplane IMO.

Plus don't believe the people that say you can fly it at 14.5 because the military does and it's a type rating thing. It's not. The C-12 is very different structurally than your run of the mill B200 and they are not the same. Playing with fire if you fly it over gross.


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Centex has an STC that brings you up to 13,500, but I'm sure it involves structural modifications, likely taken from the C-12. I would think that their STC with the 1050hp engines on a 200 would be a pretty incredible performer.
 
Back to the OP, what do the Conklin & de Decker numbers show for those two aircraft? In my limited experience they've always been a good source of data, so I'm a little surprised at your initial comments.
 
Patrick said:
Centex has an STC that brings you up to 13,500, but I'm sure it involves structural modifications, likely taken from the C-12. I would think that their STC with the 1050hp engines on a 200 would be a pretty incredible performer.
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Yeah basically like a 300. There's a video on YouTube of a 300 in the mid teens holding 3000+ fpm in IAS mode. Absolutely crazy

I'm sure with that STC you have to get the BE200 type rating correct?


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SteveC said:
Back to the OP, what do the Conklin & de Decker numbers show for those two aircraft? In my limited experience they've always been a good source of data, so I'm a little surprised at your initial comments.
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1, It showed the King Air 200 with a 500 full fuel payload (and according to some here, its around 1400 lbs).
2, shows the direct operating cost for the CJ right at $1000.00/hr which blows the King Airs out of the water as far as operating cost per mile.
 
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