Stopping the Slide

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
The ALPA Union at the company I fly for did something pretty good today. A little background... (and I am being sort of vague on this)

We are a wholly owned airline of one of the US Majors. We are one of two WOs the company has. We are a CRJ200 and CRJ700 operator while the other company operates Props. There are also several contract carriers that fly for this major. This major airline just got out of Chapter 11 and is experiencing considerable profits right now. They approached my company with an offer to fly 20 CRJ900s with the option for 20 more. In order to accept these jets we would have to freeze our current pay levels until out contract comes due in 3 years.

Because we are paid the same regardless of which aircraft we fly (200/700) we get a blended rate of the two depending on how many of each type we have compared to the total number. So, adding 20 900s should bring our pay up, but due to the nature of this proposal these new planes wouldn't recognized as far as our blended rate went. We were told that the Mainline needed a decision by August 1st. If we passed on this deal the planes would go to the other WO or one of the contract carriers.

My company has been the number one in on time departures and arrivals among all the express carriers for this Mainline company for the past 5 months. We have been profitable since we were purchased by them and provide the mainline carrier with a stable and positive brand. But still, they decided to insult us and not follow the CBA that has been established (blended rate) and offer the planes at as a concessionary deal.

After getting a lot of input from the members, the union's negotiating committee met with the company to try to get something out of the deal. There were two days of meetings. Rumor has it that the Union walked out the first day as the company wouldn't say anything other then "no" and the company walked out the second day when the union cornered them into some lies that had apparently told. In the end however, the company wouldn't deal so the MEC declined the offer with out ever putting it out to vote. Some people here feel that the union should have let the pilots vote on it, but the majority seem ok with how things happened.

So, what happens now? The logical thing (and the best outcome for us) is that the company comes back with another offer, this time with something that actually benefits the pilot group. The other options, such as spending several million dollars to start up a jet program at a prop operator and providing the airplanes to a certain contract carrier that Mainline has been slowly trying to remove, just don't seem likely. If either of these things were to happen it is possible that the mainline company could start to remove the planes we already have, potentially leading to the end of this company. However, that is unlikely and I think that is a risk we are willing to take to prevent ourselves from being whipsawed against the other carriers.

Time will tell what the end result will be, but for now I am proud of my union actually making a stand and not rolling over for a BS management proposal.
 
Odds are AWAC won't get them. They already told them no -900s if there wasn't a pay raise coming with them. My money's on Mesa.....
 
awac mec told company -900 payscale = 146 pay scale.

they also told them q400 payscale = -700 payscale.

no growth for awac for a loooong time.
 
ah but your wrong Bob- you would be able to upgrade faster thus putting more money in your pocket. Who cares about pay, you'll be flying in the left seat a lot sooner, giving you and your union the raise their asking for. You see, its a bad thing that you had ALPA to negotiate for you.

If ALPA wasn't at your airline, mgmt could have easily implemented you and your buddies to be flying those 900's right now for the same rates. ALPA screwed you guys. After all, who cares? Right?
 
It's a good thing pilots these days have no backbone. Geez. It's not like our past aviators ever were furloughed and had to leave the industry for years at a time to hold the line. Nah. We gotta put food on the table flying planes. We can't do any other job. Cave, cave, cave.

I'd gladly be furloughed for 2-4 years and find another job in the mean time to possibly come back and have the benefits/pay/work rules we once had.
 
Actually, we wouldn't have upgraded that many people. The jets come attached to the J4J agreement (even though 90 seat aircraft aren't mentioned anywhere in the deal, yet another thing AAA has renegotiated for us). So that means that if we got all 40 planes we might upgrade about 75 in house FOs. The other seats would go to JJs and the CA side of things would be slotted down to 97% (it is currently at 45%) meaning all but the three most senior pilots would be bidding with JJs ahead of them.
 
wheelsup said:
unfortuantely respect doesn't put food on the table, or money in the bank .

Wheels, you're kidding right? I see the wink but now :sarcasm: tag, so I can't tell.

Well put Omar.

Bob, that is good news. Thanks for sharing, this needs to permeate the industry.
 
jonnyb said:
Wheels, you're kidding right? I see the wink but now :sarcasm: tag, so I can't tell.

it's not a joking matter!

the only thing that puts food on the table is moola..."show me the money!"
 
wheelsup said:
it's not a joking matter!

the only thing that puts food on the table is moola..."show me the money!"

Yeah, and how do suppose that's going to happen? You gonna hope your way to a decent paycheck? No. You want some money? Fight for it! Pilots flying 100K pound+ airplanes for 20K.........it's still just as pathetic as the last time we all discussed this.
 
jonnyb said:
Yeah, and how do suppose that's going to happen? You gonna hope your way to a decent paycheck? No. You want some money? Fight for it! Pilots flying 100K pound+ airplanes for 20K.........it's still just as pathetic as the last time we all discussed this.

you're preaching to the choir...
 
You didn't "stop the slide", you just slid yourself off into a backwater.

*Somebody* is going to do the flying at a rate US Air likes and that means some pilot group is going to fly them, probably for less. Somebody is going to continue the slide, it's just that the PSA MEC (not the pilot group) has decided they don't want to do the flying.

If I had any faith there was a bottom here then maybe this would be worth applauding. Maybe Mesaba will be the bottom, we'll see, but this "stand" by PSA "pilots" means nothing.
 
mrivc211 said:
ah but your wrong Bob- you would be able to upgrade faster thus putting more money in your pocket. Who cares about pay, you'll be flying in the left seat a lot sooner, giving you and your union the raise their asking for. You see, its a bad thing that you had ALPA to negotiate for you.

If ALPA wasn't at your airline, mgmt could have easily implemented you and your buddies to be flying those 900's right now for the same rates. ALPA screwed you guys. After all, who cares? Right?

Or I could be flying a 900/E-190 at Mainline where it belongs!

You must be tight with your management or SkyWest has some really good Kool Aid. The thing is, ALPA is here. Why don't you preach your anti-ALPA Sermon to the ASA pilot group. I'm sure my buddies there would love to hear what you have to say.

Also, after speaking with most of our pilots we don't want 900's here. Period. Keep them at places like Mesa and SkyWest. When companies like SkyWest or Mesa bring bigger airplanes down to the regional level it takes away jobs at a much higher paying major. Did your pilot group have a say in taking the 900's?
 
CFIse said:
You didn't "stop the slide", you just slid yourself off into a backwater.

*Somebody* is going to do the flying at a rate US Air likes and that means some pilot group is going to fly them, probably for less. Somebody is going to continue the slide, it's just that the PSA MEC (not the pilot group) has decided they don't want to do the flying.

If I had any faith there was a bottom here then maybe this would be worth applauding. Maybe Mesaba will be the bottom, we'll see, but this "stand" by PSA "pilots" means nothing.

I'm proud of our union for saying no. I'm sure Mesa would snatch them up, even though they can't staff them. That's the best option, but Airways is very displeased with their product. We're still not out of the running, but I still hope the 900's don't come here.

Yeah, "somebody" will get the jets. Maybe I'm a fool, but I didn't go to work for "somebody" slightly based on my values and because I don't like to walk through the terminal and hide my ID. If this came to a pilot vote I'm almost certain it would not pass.

The "stand" that was strongly voiced by our pilot group to the union means a lot. We are not a bottom feeder and we were insulted with this offer. Our union had the balls to say no to the current proposal. Maybe if some other airlines (union and non-union) got some spines we could be flying a 90 seat airplane at a mainline airline making much more money.
 
EDUC8-or said:
Or I could be flying a 900/E-190 at Mainline where it belongs!

You must be tight with your management or SkyWest has some really good Kool Aid. The thing is, ALPA is here. Why don't you preach your anti-ALPA Sermon to the ASA pilot group. I'm sure my buddies there would love to hear what you have to say.

Also, after speaking with most of our pilots we don't want 900's here. Period. Keep them at places like Mesa and SkyWest. When companies like SkyWest or Mesa bring bigger airplanes down to the regional level it takes away jobs at a much higher paying major. Did your pilot group have a say in taking the 900's?

You silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!
 
mrivc211 said:
You silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

I think I might have missed some sarcasm in your previous posts. Sorry man, I just got your PM and saw your signature. I would like to publicly apologize for being a prick. Cheers to you for standing up and making a difference.

I just finished a 2 day with a check airman who kept saying how bad we need the 900's and I guess I was just tired of hearing his crap and I guess I'm still a little fired up. Again, sorry.
 
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