Still At The Airport. FAR 117 legal?

Nick said:
No, not at all the case everywhere.

I was in a meeting in DC specifically about this with the FAA two weeks ago.

There are a very small number of carriers taking the stance of no extension = fatigued or worse still, disciplinary action, but the consensus is not at all that. No extension simply means the crew is done flying for the day at the usual "Table B" amount of time.
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Yes, that's what most right thinking people, uh, think...
 
Nick said:
No, not at all the case everywhere.

I was in a meeting in DC specifically about this with the FAA two weeks ago.

There are a very small number of carriers taking the stance of no extension = fatigued or worse still, disciplinary action, but the consensus is not at all that. No extension simply means the crew is done flying for the day at the usual "Table B" amount of time.
Click to expand...

Well until the FAA comes down hard on carriers for the practice, it'll continue.

I filed an ASAP report that never got looked it (it got swept under the rug):

My carrier asked if I was going to be able to accept an extension later that day: as in, 8 hours later. I said, as I cannot forecast fatigue, I can also not forecast fitness. Call me later and ask again. (For folks that remember the magic 8-ball: "Reply Hazy, Try Again Later").

I filed an ASAP report about the double standard of being able to forecast fitness, but not fatigue (prohibited in the FOM). I heard zero about it.

I also heard nothing about the ASAP I filed regarding degradation of safety: removing of aircraft from service (as in, for maintenance), to force flight crews to call to get schedule updates.
 
"I also heard nothing about the ASAP I filed regarding degradation of safety: removing of aircraft from service (as in, for maintenance), to force flight crews to call to get schedule updates."

Like when your in rest you have to call? Where I work, if the plane is red, I'm all over skeds to release us into crew rest. Usually they leave you on the clock for hours because it costs them nothing. But you should most certainly not have to call them during your crew rest.
 
DE727UPS said:
"I also heard nothing about the ASAP I filed regarding degradation of safety: removing of aircraft from service (as in, for maintenance), to force flight crews to call to get schedule updates."

Like when your in rest you have to call? Where I work, if the plane is red, I'm all over skeds to release us into crew rest. Usually they leave you on the clock for hours because it costs them nothing. But you should most certainly not have to call them during your crew rest.
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If it's like some of the same company's other practices, they'd probably force them to call some other way. Like not having a hotel room for them. Or canceling a DH. Or something else. I've had both of those to force me to call scheduling to get the "Oh, and while we have you on the line....." thing. Honestly, if the plane is out of service, I'm not calling (unless it's go home day, and even then if there's killer extension language, I probably wouldn't). Take the plane out of service, that's fine. I'll call when I'm timed out and need a hotel.....

It's kinda been a back and forth issue with us on the not accepting an extension vs the fatigue issue. I've never personally had to deal with it. Benefit of NOT being based in JFK anymore. But, I think the current ruling is you can refuse it, but you don't have to be listed as fatigued. The tricky part comes when they start shorting guys on pay because it's a grey area, our PEA doesn't cover it and we don't even have a permanent MEC or negotiating committee yet, much less a CBA....
 
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