State tells NWA attendants: Give that money back

Malko

Malko

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Last update: March 10, 2006 – 11:14 PM


Some Northwest Airlines flight attendants furloughed as the carrier filed for bankruptcy last fall have been notified that they were wrongly paid unemployment benefits and must give the money back.



So far, about 20 attendants have called their union about recent letters canceling their benefits and charging them repayments as high as $7,000, according to the Professional Flight Attendants Association (PFAA).

The mailings follow a state review of the group, begun when officials realized that some attendants were receiving unemployment benefits and others weren't, said Tom Romens, integrity assurance director for unemployment insurance at the Minnesota Department of Employment and Economic Development.

The state determined that these attendants' voluntary, one-year furloughs were the same as leaves of absence -- which specifically don't qualify for unemployment benefits in Minnesota. State law requires repayment of money received in error, even if it was the state's mistake, Romens said.

The union contends that a voluntary furlough is not the same as a leave. If these 20 attendants appeal and win, that could mean retroactive benefits for the others, PFAA representative Kathy Dunham said. More than 700 took the furloughs; it's unknown how many were denied benefits.
Meredith Anderson, a flight attendant who is based in the Twin Cities but lives in Mesa, Ariz., appealed after Minnesota demanded repayment of $4,147.

Northwest said in October that it would cut 1,400 flight attendant jobs by January, Anderson said. She knew she would be on the chopping block.
"Before making a decision whether I should just bow out now, I checked with unemployment to see if I would receive benefits," she said. "Because I was told yes, there would be no problems, I made the decision to volunteer for a furlough, because I was only going to go in January anyway."

Though her furlough is called "voluntary," Anderson said she was in essence laid off, and therefore qualifies for unemployment payments.
Lawyer Rick McHugh said Anderson has a good point.

"Northwest was in bankruptcy. It was downsizing," said McHugh, at the National Employment Law Project in Dexter, Mich., a legal center for the working poor and the unemployed. "The company decided how many people were going out the door. All the employees did was decide among themselves which ones were going to go first."

But Richard Mandell, managing unemployment law judge at the Department of Employment and Economic Development, said that under Minnesota law, no one on a voluntary leave of absence can collect unemployment. The law defines leaves as voluntary if there is still work the people can do at their places of employment, Mandell said.

It doesn't matter that Anderson was close to losing her job. "If there was work she could still perform at the time she requested this furlough, we would consider that a voluntary leave of absence, and she would be ineligible for unemployment benefits," Mandell said.

Officials said confusion about workforce cuts at Northwest is commonplace, because there are so many kinds of them. And workers cause some of the problems by giving department employees flawed information, or by misunderstanding the answers, they said.

Regardless of who goofed, money paid in error must be returned because it belongs to taxpayers, Romens said. "But we are pretty understanding when it come to these debts," he added. "They can pay us over time." That doesn't satisfy Anderson. "You wouldn't expect a captain to do a half-baked job in processing flight plans, then put a plane in the air and say, 'Oops, we made a mistake,' " she said.
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That's why AA specifically called their 'voluntary' program "Voluntary Leaves of Absence". The word Furlough was only used to refer to something happening involuntarily.
 
It's the taxpayers money. You know, to be used for things like public-sponsored football stadiums, $10 million studies to study whether or not a study should be done or not, or just getting filtered into the pockets of contractors who win 'no bid' contracts to build cement blocks for the federal building.

Yeah, those darned flight attendants should be ashamed of themselves. :sarcasm:
 
Doug Taylor said:
Yeah, those darned flight attendants should be ashamed of themselves. :sarcasm:
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Yeah! They ought to have to pay it back with interest!

Kidding.

Seriously, if they were told by the state that they qualified, and were given the benefits, then sorry, state of MN.

In our case it was made quite clear anyone who took the voluntary leave would not be eligable for unemployement. If those NW F/As were told they qualified, then they ought to be left alone.
 
Actually, it's not state money, it's money working stiffs like us pay the state so in case we lose our jobs, we're covered!

They take a chunk of our paycheck out, the employer matches, and that's what we get back if we file for unemployment.

Crazy, huh? And now Minnesota, after telling them they qualified, wants the money these FAs paid in back.:banghead:

I'm banging my head more than a guy with a mullet does at a Mosters of Rock concert!
 
Doug Taylor said:
It's the taxpayers money. You know, to be used for things like public-sponsored football stadiums,
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While I agree with the rest of your diatribe, those publically funded stadiums bring in a ton more money than they cost. And I'm not talking about the team ownership alone.
 
So in hindsight, they should have jsut waited to get furloughed instead of the 'voluntary' furlough. So much for helping out where needed. :sarcasm:
 
Actually, it's not state money, it's money working stiffs like us pay the state so in case we lose our jobs, we're covered!

They take a chunk of our paycheck out, the employer matches, and that's what we get back if we file for unemployment.
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Have to disagree with you there tony - SUTA and FUTA stand for State (or Federal) Unemployment Tax Assessment.

There is no employee contribution, it is all on the employer. Depending on the state, it can be anywhere from .1 to 13.4% for SUTA and all states except NY have .8% FUTA. NY got raised to 1.1% because Cuomo stole from the fund and never paid it back.

FUTA is only charged on the first $7,000 of individual employee salary, and SUTA varies from state to state. FL is $7,000, Georgia is $8,500, and Colorado is the highest at $10,000.

The funds for unemployed benefits only make up about 60% of the money collected. The other 40% goes to state and federal overhead.

I don't see how they can ask for money back - The Feds would have to approve that. Although I agree that voluntary furlough does NOT qualify for unemployment (because it's voluntary), I don't see how they can take back a benefit. That would create some serious implications for retroactive taxes.
 
Chris_Ford said:
While I agree with the rest of your diatribe, those publically funded stadiums bring in a ton more money than they cost. And I'm not talking about the team ownership alone.
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oh yea? prove it... and use the arizona cardinals as your example! a losing team, getting a brand spanking new stadium where the roof opens and the field can be moved OUT of the stadium....constantly losing their games, buying old players that are well past their playing time (Emmitt Smith ring a bell there?) with very few seats sold.

the taxpayers are paying for that stadium for hte most part, yet aren't getting anything in return...ticket prices will be so out the roof, the cardinals will still have a half empty stadium come game time.
 
Chris_Ford said:
While I agree with the rest of your diatribe, those publically funded stadiums bring in a ton more money than they cost. And I'm not talking about the team ownership alone.
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Now THAT was a good one.

Please, PLEASE talk to the Bidwills and have them move the Cardinals to Indiana. PLeeeeeease! The weather is too nice in AZ to ever support a large fanbase of football fans. Even my friends that are absolute football fanatics here in PHX don't even watch or go to Cards games.

The stadium is going to be a drain for years to come.
 
Changing the name of the team would be a good start... The Cards belong in St louis. Perhaps give the locals there in the desert something they can relate too.

Then again, the Utah Jazz worked out when they left New Orleans so what do I know? Just win baby!
 
Maybe you could have the Cardinals move to Colorado Springs, CO? :)

I spend more on propping up the AZ Cardinals, by far, than I do feeding my cats. And my cats have more function. And all they do is sleep and move food from downstairs to their catbox upstairs all day.
 
Timbuff10 said:
Then again, the Utah Jazz worked out when they left New Orleans so what do I know? Just win baby!
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The team worked out, the name is still an aberration--and one that has spread beyond the confines of the Delta Center; SLC has had lots of minor-league teams with ___zz-type names--the Buzz baseball team, the Grizz hockey team, and now the Utah Blaze arena football team (though that isn't really beyond the confines of the Delta Center, they play there).
 
Kristie said:
oh yea? prove it... and use the arizona cardinals as your example! a losing team, getting a brand spanking new stadium where the roof opens and the field can be moved OUT of the stadium....constantly losing their games, buying old players that are well past their playing time (Emmitt Smith ring a bell there?) with very few seats sold.
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http://www.superbowl.com/features/futuresites

Also, it'll be hosting the new BCS National Championship game next year.

That and Super Bowl XLII will throw enough money into the local economy to pay the stadium off, if not more. With a new stadium, look for the valley to host a lot more Super Bowls, NCAA National Championships, et cetera.

Super Bowl XXXVII generated a total economic impact on San Diego County of $367 million, according to a study by Marketing Information Masters, Inc.
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ok.. I think phx gets the superbowl in 2012 isn't it?

the stadium costed $50 MILLION more than it was supposed to...now closer to a $375 Million cost...so, the city/taxpayers will be losing big buku bucks until at least 2012. then the superbowl might pay off just the project cost itself.
 
Mr_Creepy said:
Have to disagree with you there tony - SUTA and FUTA stand for State (or Federal) Unemployment Tax Assessment.

There is no employee contribution, it is all on the employer. Depending on the state, it can be anywhere from .1 to 13.4% for SUTA and all states except NY have .8% FUTA. NY got raised to 1.1% because Cuomo stole from the fund and never paid it back.
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Actually, some states like New Jersey and Alaska do have an employee paid tax as well. The NJ tax is actually pretty hefty. In PA, there has been a special assessment to employees for the last two years.
 
2008, did you read the link? :) And the national championship is next year (07) so that'll pay off a huge chunk of it too.
 
lostplanetairman said:
Actually, some states like New Jersey and Alaska do have an employee paid tax as well. The NJ tax is actually pretty hefty. In PA, there has been a special assessment to employees for the last two years.
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The special assessment in both states is NOT to be passed on to employees. if your employer is "assessing" you for that tax, they are guilty of a felony.
 
Chris_Ford said:
2008, did you read the link? :) And the national championship is next year (07) so that'll pay off a huge chunk of it too.
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Even if those games weren't played at the new stadium, the teams get a huge chunk of the revenue from the NFL. Merchandise sales (all over the country), TV contracts, etc. so far more revenue would come in from more than this lowly fan base LOL.
 
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