Starting UND Commercial Aviation in January

storm glider

Well-Known Member
Well, it may feel like my hands and feet aren't there with me for the first few weeks or so but I'm still pretty excited!

Got some questions for those of you who have gone through the program or are there now:

1. I'm adding my planned schedule for the commercial aviation program below. I don't need any other gen. ed.'s other than 1 class that I'll squeeze somewhere in there but does the sequence of courses seem sensible? or out or sync? Am I underestimating any class? I think it's doable, but let me know your thoughts. I'll exhaust my GI Bill benefits so I'm trying to keep it as consolidated as possible.

2. Flight labs - For my 102 flight lab, when I sign up for a MWF or TTS slot, will those be the ONLY times I can go flying? Will I get assigned an instructor and fly with him/her every time? I want a MWF late morning slot but I have my 100 class during that time on Fridays. it possible to where I can do a MW and Sat flight lab schedule? If not, I have the choice of first lab of the day MWF or last lab of the day MWF, which brings me to my next question..

3. Weather - is it better to schedule flight labs super early in the day because the winds start picking up later in the morning? Or is that not a factor?

4. Having a car - Is it necessary? Looks like there's a shuttle that goes back and forth between the airport and campus. I'm planning to sell my car before I go there and don't really want to have to buy one right away.

5. Campus Apartments - I'm on the waiting list for a campus apartment at the moment, are they decent? I'm really hoping to avoid the Craigslist hustle.

My planned sequence (#'s before class are prereq's, #'s after are how many units)

Sp 15
AVIT 100 Aviation Orientation 1
AVIT 102 Introduction to Aviation 5
ATSC 110 Meteorology I 3
ATSC 110L Meteorology I Laboratory 1
AVIT 103 Introduction to Air Traffic Control 2

Su 15 #1
100, 102 AVIT 221 Basic Attitude Instrument Flying 3
102, AVIT 208 Aviation Safety 3
Su 15 #2
208, 221 AVIT 222 IFR Regulations and Procedures 3
AVIT 250 Human Factors 2

Fa 15
222 or 324, co 324 AVIT 323 Aerodynamics - Airplanes 3
222, co 323 AVIT 324 Aircraft Systems 3
250, AVIT 309 Flight Physiology 3
AVIT 403 Aerospace Law 3
AVIT 402 or AVIT 405 or AVIT 407 Airport Planning and Administration or Airline Operations and Management or General Aviation Operations and Management 3

Sp 16
324, AVIT 325 Multi-Engine Systems and Procedures 2
atsc 110 ATSC 231 Aviation Meteorology I 4
325, AVIT 421 Advanced Aerodynamics 3
142 or 324 AVIT 327 Gas Turbine Engines 2
AVIT 402 or AVIT 405 or AVIT 407 Airport Planning and Administration Must be a different course than Fall semester or Airline Operations and Management or General Aviation Operations and Management 3

Su 16
325, AVIT 414 Certified Flight Instructor Certification 5
250, 245 or 325 AVIT 430 Crew Resource Management 3
243 or 325 AVIT 411 International and Long Range Navigation 3

Fa 16
414, AVIT 415 Instrument Flight Instructor 4
415, 421, 428 AVIT 480 Advanced Aircraft Operations 3
403, AVIT 485 Aviation Senior Capstone 3
325, AVIT 428 Transport Category Aircraft Systems 4
 
You are required to be available during your assigned slot. It is highly encouraged to fly extra if you can. Don't expect to try to make a Mon/Wed/Sat thing work, it won't. Flying in the morning or evening will yield generally calmer winds. Aviation shuttle is a death trap. Never lived in campus apartments so I can't help there.
 
1. I think your class plan looks pretty manageable depending on the effort you put in. This biggest thing that will throw a wrench into your plan will the the weather and completing 102 on time.
2. As gotWXdagain mentioned you will have to be available during your allotted flight lab. Depending on your assigned CFI you will be able to fly outside of that slot and if your CFI is unavailable, he can find someone else to cover.
3. Early is generally better in the winter but you may run into temperatures which make it too cold to fly, period. (-15 if i remember correctly).
4. While I may not be as synical regarding the aviation shuttle...it does its job going back and forth and is usually on time. Not having a car may restrict you to campus more often than you'd like but GF does have a decent public bus, if you could call it that.
5. Depends on which apartments you are waitlisted. The most popular are the Campus Place apartments located right across from Ryan Hall. Dakota Commercial seems to have a monopoly on GF apartments so if you are waitlisted with them you could end up with a ton of different ones.

Good luck and feel free to PM me.
 
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Like others said, focus on getting the flying courses done on time.

I had a hard time with that because of financial reasons. This made it so that I didn't meet some of the prerequisites and probably did 3 more semesters there than I really needed.

That's my biggest frustration with UND. Sometimes you can get a waiver, but not always.
 
1. don't underestimate Aviation 102. I already came in with my license so I thought it was really easy but if you have not much aviation knowledge I have heard it is extremely difficult.

2. No, you can fly at other times but you will primarily fly during the flight lab time.

3. morning or evening has the best weather generally

4. there is a shuttle. I took the shuttle half of this semester before I got a car. taking the shuttle isnt that bad but you just have to plan ahead on when you will leave and catch it.

your plan for classes looks good, but look at campus connection to see what classes are offered which summer session. for example they aren't offering Human Factors during the second summer session in 2015 so you should probably take that next semester and take something else during the summer. also some of the other courses can't be taken together. like you have to take transport category systems (428) before advanced aircraft ops (480), and you can't take 480 at the same time as CFII.
 
To clarify the shuttle: If you're cool with it being so full that you have to sit in the space between the rear bench and the sliding side door while some clueless jackass texts while driving this bussload of nobody wearing their seatbelts like he's just stolen the van, then by all means the shuttle is for you. Some drivers are better than others, busy time is around 9am and again around 4pm.
 
Flying in the morning or evening will yield generally calmer winds
3. morning or evening has the best weather generally
So I guess 14:45-17:45 is considered evening then because it's the last flight slot. That's what I'm signed up for at the moment.

And the shuttle sounds like it'll do the job so that's good enough for now.

5. Depends on which apartments you are waitlisted. The most popular are the Campus Place apartments...
Are those UND operated apartments? The name doesn't sound familiar from the housing application. The ones I picked were Williamsburg/Mt. Vernon, 23/24 Plex, and Northwestern Dr.

1. don't underestimate Aviation 102...
they aren't offering Human Factors during the second summer session in 2015 so you should probably take that next semester and take something else during the summer. also some of the other courses can't be taken together. like you have to take transport category systems (428) before advanced aircraft ops (480), and you can't take 480 at the same time as CFII.
A lot of good points here...

102 - You're right, I've read that around the forum a lot, so I'm keeping it at 12 units so it hopefully doesn't get too overwhelming

250 - Correct again, I meant to list that under the first summer session, and looking at it again now, 208, 221 w/ the flight lab, and 250 might be a bit much for 6 weeks but I'll see how it goes and that opens another class option for the second session too.
And both advisors I spoke with said 480 can be taken the same semester (last semester) as 415 CFII so long as all it's flying is completed before a certain point (forgetting when that is right now). Looks like the 428 bit got past me.. most likely it's a necessary pre-req for 480 but I'll double check if it's okay as a co-req w/ the given circumstances, otw I'll just be reshuffling.
 
First off, if you have the option of choosing Gary Ulrich for any of your classes, DO IT and thank me later.

Flight labs MAY be flexible, but it depends on the instructor you get paired with and when they are available. You will usually fly with only the one instructor for the duration of your flight course unless they leave town or are sick or something like that. Definitely plan on being available during the flight lab time, as they will usually set up a "permanent launch" for 102 students where you always have an aircraft reserved at that time unless you cancel it. I would strongly encourage you to fly more than your scheduled times if you instructor has the availability as 102 is a difficult class to fit into a semester. If you aren't able to get it done on time, you likely won't be able to start the next flight course in the summer. The solo flights are what holds people up the most, so you want to get to those as soon as possible in case the weather doesn't cooperate.

The BEST time to fly in Grand Forks is early in the morning. Yes, sometimes you will still get fog and it clears up later in the day, or maybe they won't have the ramps cleared from a snowfall yet, but morning in my opinion is still by far the best. Grand Forks can get VERY busy, and the afternoon is often the busiest time. If you fly very early in the morning around sunrise, you will be up flying before everyone else and will get a lot more done in less time. It is not entirely uncommon to be #6 or #8 in line for takeoff on a busy afternoon (it's not the norm, but it does happen), this will NEVER happen early in the morning. The winds are usually calmer in the morning as well (anything more than 25KTS in the Cessnas at UND is a no-go).

Campus apartments aren't the RITZ, but you get what you pay for and they are pretty affordable.

The shuttle serves its purpose. You will likely have to walk a few blocks to get to it though from wherever you end up living, which when it's below 0 can be quite chilly especially with any wind.

Are you using the Post 9/11 GI Bill? If that's the case and you have any electives, I would take another flight course like aerobatics, tail-wheel or seaplane. 9/11 GI Bill should cover all the costs, so why waste that on classroom work?
 
Yes, I am using Post 9/11 GI Bill.

I would love to take the aerobatics and other courses, but I was told that technically since they're not required for the completion of the degree, their fee's wouldn't be covered by the GI Bill. Is that something they just tell everyone, would you know anything about that WS? Are you using GI Bill too?

That and the fact that I'm not taking any filler coursework for units, everything I will take is a direct requirement for the degree. But if the GI Bill will cover their fees, then I would definitely think about including them somewhere.

Thanks again to everyone for their input, I really appreciate it!
 
I've got a friend that has used the 9/11 GI Bill, mine was mostly Chapter 30. What they told you is true, however my understanding is that if you NEED the elective credits, the GI Bill will pay for it. However I think there are very few if any electives in the Commercial Aviation program. In other words, if you are left with a few credits remaining after all of the required courses I believe you could use one of those courses to get the credits and they would pay. Definitely make sure before you do it though.
 
Storm Glider, let me just say welcome! I was literally in your exact shoes last spring! This coming spring will be my first full year at UND! I too am on the GI Bill, so I should be able to give you some insight on it. The course load you have for spring is exactly what I took. Its very easy to finish with that course load. I did Tues, Thurs, Sat but flew more like 5-6 days a week. You will find out that when your flight instructor knows that you are on the GI Bill, you will become their best friend. They love how they dont have to worry about being back at exactly 1.5 hrs which is the usual length of the lesson. You will also have more freedom doing cross countries and will be able to go further. When I did 102 last spring, I was the first one done in my class and was done a month and a half early. You will find out that alot of the kids here are pretty lazy, they only fly on their scheduled days and it takes them way more money and time that it needs to be. So if you are prepared for each lesson and briefing you will have no problem.

I haven't really looked into the other classes like aerobatics to see if they are covered, but from my understanding they are not, because it isnt required.I live in apartments off campus so I cant help you there.

Overall, Its a great school, and Carol Anson is on top of her game. Never missed or had a late payment!

Enjoy your first semester and fly as much as possible!
 
As a former 3.5 year CFI/Stage vet of UND, everyone here has provided good advice.

Wx permitting, hit the ground running on 102. Don't kill yourself trying to memorize flows, etc. necessarily, but at the very least do the background reading and start figuring out the maneuvers listed in each TCO lesson. Also, take advantage of your right to ride along on any UND non-stage training flight. Go observe 221/323/414 lessons if you can. You'll get to just sit and absorb a lot of the GFK craziness without being in the hot seat. That will help you IMMENSELY in figuring out the general "flow" of a training flight and give you a free pass to just soak in ATC comms and the GFK arrival/departure procedures.

Good luck! Feel free to PM if you have questions.
 
Thanks WS, I'll look into seeing if it might be an option at all for me.

JD, thanks, and wow, let's just say that I'll probably have some more questions for you as the term begins. And yes, Carol has been very helpful so far.

@DhruvK, thanks for the clarification, sitting in on other courses was definitely something I was wondering about, good to hear that won'd be an issue. Can you shed a little more light on the ride alongs? Sounds cool, do they talk about it anywhere on their website?
 
Thanks WS, I'll look into seeing if it might be an option at all for me.

JD, thanks, and wow, let's just say that I'll probably have some more questions for you as the term begins. And yes, Carol has been very helpful so far.

@DhruvK, thanks for the clarification, sitting in on other courses was definitely something I was wondering about, good to hear that won'd be an issue. Can you shed a little more light on the ride alongs? Sounds cool, do they talk about it anywhere on their website?
If you want to observe a flight, you just need to have your ramp badge and be enrolled in a flight course which will both happen at the very start of your flight training (your instructor will help you with both of these). All you will have to do is let them know at the SOF desk in dispatch that you want to observe a flight, you'll put your info on the clipboard, the SOF will pair you with the next available crew and off you go. You can observe any flight provided the instructor and student are both fine with it. Sometimes they won't want an observer due to lesson requirements, weight and balance or maybe just personal preference, but if that's the case you just wait for the next crew. Many ground school or flight instructors will REQUIRE you to observe a flight or two.

Don't forget that you can observe ANY flight, so take advantage and go on a flight in the King Air or the Bell 206 helicopter if you have the time.
 
for the King Air you have to tell them the day before you want to go so they can do weight and balance. those flights are also really long, and go to places like Chicago so you have to do a lot of planning if you want to observe one.
 
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