Spirit Furloughing

[ozziecat35]

I get where you’re coming from but keep in mind Wizzair is an experience (well any EU ULCC) unlike anything in the US. The quality of life and compensation is on par with the regionals, keep that in mind. As someone who converted their FAA ATP to a UK ATPL, don’t think the 12 months to knock it out will be a breeze. You’re looking at hundreds of hours of study to do the 14 written exams and the UK class 1 medical is way more in depth than the FAA.

But a chapter of your life living and flying in Europe would be a blast. Keep us updated!

I will never not be pissed off that we allow UK ATPL’s the ability to fill out a form and voila, magic FAA ATP while FAA certificate holders get zero equitability the other way. (As I understand it at least…)

I am in the process of claiming my birthright UK citizenship and it would be nice to have that in my back pocket should society take an even larger nosedive here, but damn, sucks we don’t get fair treatment.

 

[Karnage]

I will never not be pissed off that we allow UK ATPL’s the ability to fill out a form and voila, magic FAA ATP while FAA certificate holders get zero equitability the other way. (As I understand it at least…)

They can turn their PPL/CPL to an FAA PPL with a simple application, but doesn't work that way for ATPs. They would have to meet all the eligibility and testing requirements for anything else. Well, except and instrument rating but for that they just need to pass the FAA written. If they have a foreign ATPL they don't have to first pass the usual FAA PPL/CPL/IA/ME ratings first, but that's about it as far as short cuts.

I'm not aware of any FAR that lists a process or any other means to get an FAA ATP based on a foreign license beyond meeting the requirements and taking the tests.

 

[🦈💜]

They can turn their PPL/CPL to an FAA PPL with a simple application, but doesn't work that way for ATPs. They would have to meet all the eligibility and testing requirements for anything else. Well, except and instrument rating but for that they just need to pass the FAA written. If they have a foreign ATPL they don't have to first pass the usual FAA PPL/CPL/IA/ME ratings first, but that's about it as far as short cuts.

I'm not aware of any FAR that lists a process or any other means to get an FAA ATP based on a foreign license beyond meeting the requirements and taking the tests.

The process is nowhere near close to being reciprocal, though. To get your EASA ATPL you're basically starting from scratch, from EASA's eyes.

It's pretty bogus. Although wanting the FAA to make it suck for people from other countries because it sucks for us is just comparative misery, in the end.

 

[Karnage]

The process is nowhere near close to being reciprocal, though. To get your EASA ATPL you're basically starting from scratch, from EASA's eyes.

It's pretty bogus. Although wanting the FAA to make it suck for people from other countries because it sucks for us is just comparative misery, in the end.

Given the laxity with which certificates are issued in the US, I can see their point. There's so much variation in instruction and certification (we all know gimmie DPE/APDs) that honestly even in the US I sometimes find some people's certificates to be, well, suspect.

That being said, having done a fair bit of license conversion training the FAA process is whack and extremely lopsided. Most foreign regulatory agencies go way overboard on theory and leave people with little actual practical experience. They could calculate random lift functions in their heads but couldn't fly a traffic pattern to save their life. Very rote and proscribed learning.

If only there was a way to balance the abysmal lack of core understanding US pilots have about theory with the utter inability to fly a route that hasn't been rehearsed 1000x before with any level of situational awareness or understanding of the real world affect all that math they did on the ground has on flying.

 

[DeltaAlphaNovember]

The flight school i went to back in 2003 was mostly Norwegian and Swedish students. They would come over and get their FAA certificates and then go back to Norway and have to convert them to JAA. Hearing them talk about the process made my brain hurt.

 

[Kingairer]

I will never not be pissed off that we allow UK ATPL’s the ability to fill out a form and voila, magic FAA ATP while FAA certificate holders get zero equitability the other way. (As I understand it at least…)

I am in the process of claiming my birthright UK citizenship and it would be nice to have that in my back pocket should society take an even larger nosedive here, but damn, sucks we don’t get fair treatment.

Just in time for some idiot in congress to make a bill requiring US citizens to give up their dual citizenship. Doubt it’ll ever get any oxygen but hate that the idea is being floated .

 

[luke3]

Just in time for some idiot in congress to make a bill requiring US citizens to give up their dual citizenship. Doubt it’ll ever get any oxygen but hate that the idea is being floated .

I also doubt something like that will ever go through, but at this point I take nothing for granted anymore. It's completely nonsensical especially since I was granted a security clearance while maintaining dual citizenship. If it ever happens it may very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back and makes me go through the whole EASA conversion while I re-evaluate my life choices. Although I wonder how marketable I would be over there with almost all of my hours being in ancient airplanes they probably consider flying museum pieces.

Just thinking going through the theory exams gives me heartburn. I trained under the back-then JAA for my PPL (which unfortunately has since expired, yes that's a thing over there if you don't keep up with it) and even for that the theory was overkill. Luckily I trained with some great people: one instructor with US training, a former CL-215 water bomber pilot, and a couple from the "old guard" at Alitalia. From what I understand old school Alitalia was very much like the US in the sense of fly the airplane first rather than rote procedural knowledge. Having done the rest of my training and flying after that in the US, I've come to learn that as with many things in life, a happy medium would be ideal. Increase the knowledge of theory and procedures in the US, and add more common sense in Europe. Although at the end of the day if SHTF, I'd rather have American trained pilots up front.

 

[killbilly]

I read somewhere that Spirit didn’t purchase a service agreement with the engines that everyone else purchases, to save some cash. If they had purchased it, they would have had better protections and received more compensation. Totally sounds like a Spirit move.

I thought most operators did “power by the hour” and didn’t actually own the engines, just leased them, which, in most commercial sectors includes some kind of mandatory service/maintenance as part of the lease agreement.

Omitting that would be quite unusual as I understand it. @Minuteman do I have the right of this?

 

[ozziecat35]

They can turn their PPL/CPL to an FAA PPL with a simple application, but doesn't work that way for ATPs. They would have to meet all the eligibility and testing requirements for anything else. Well, except and instrument rating but for that they just need to pass the FAA written. If they have a foreign ATPL they don't have to first pass the usual FAA PPL/CPL/IA/ME ratings first, but that's about it as far as short cuts.

I'm not aware of any FAR that lists a process or any other means to get an FAA ATP based on a foreign license beyond meeting the requirements and taking the tests.

Fair point w/r to the exact rating, as was mentioned in another reply, it's the lack of any equal reciprocity that bugs me.

 

[Minuteman]

I thought most operators did “power by the hour” and didn’t actually own the engines, just leased them, which, in most commercial sectors includes some kind of mandatory service/maintenance as part of the lease agreement.

Omitting that would be quite unusual as I understand it. @Minuteman do I have the right of this?

I don’t really know what is typical.

There has certainly been a fashion in the last decade for businesses to rid themselves of as much CapEx in favor of OpEx as possible — gotta boost them cash flow numbers. And on the other side, I imagine engine manufacturers and 3rd party MRO shops are happy to sell power-by-the-hour and master service agreements to meet that fashion in a kind of “TechOps as a Service” thing.

That’s all in lieu of carriers making investments for in-house capacity to do that work; the advantage being it’s probably cheaper if they’re large-enough. But even the smaller, “leaner” operations might be willing to accept some higher initial investment cost if it means they don’t deal with getting hind tit from a vendor.

The hybrid fashion seems to be opening an MRO somewhere in the global south (this includes Florida & Alabama), going big and offering excess capacity as competition to the OEMs.