Spirit Contract Now

If the pilots agreed to PBS I imagine it would take the company a long time to implement it. If the PBS language is done right I am ok with switching to it personally. I just hope that we don't spend another year trying to iron out every little detail.
 
Box hauler said:
If the pilots agreed to PBS I imagine it would take the company a long time to implement it. If the PBS language is done right I am ok with switching to it personally. I just hope that we don't spend another year trying to iron out every little detail.
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Yup. Something to think about in case you guys merge.


Our unions knew we have PBS, AS has line bidding. So for the JCBA, they agreed to only open up scope, pay, and retirement sections to ratify or send to arbitration worse case. Scheduling 25 improvements are going to be handled separately under a MOU. Scheduling improvements have to happen FIRST, then and only then does the company get the ability to start looking at PBS for the combined pilot group. Several advantages to this setup: one, we don't let PBS defer and extend JCBA negotiations. As it stands, we will get our JCBA out by Oct 29th. Two, they don't just get PBS unless they give us some scheduling improvements first. Three, it gives both sides lots of time to get the merger done, operations integrated, one list, etc. without having to do just what you said: spend another year tying to iron out details, while we wait for things we need now.
 
I want the new contract to state that all the panels on the plane have to match, I flew a brand new A321 today, built in July, all the panels did not match...
 
And I agree with @Nark I think PBS is inevitable, if by some miracle it doesn't happen this time around it will the next time. I'm all for it but the the rest of the deal has to make up for it, and it currently falls short.
 
wheelsup said:
I much prefer PBS to line bidding as long as vacation increases in line

Your experiences with PBS could be great or it could absolutely suck

I would be cautious on holding out too long for incremental improvements. Get a decent contract with a shorter time period perhaps with a me too clause and be done with it. Swinging for the fences rarely works out in pilots favor.
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I agree about swinging for the fences isn't typically a good deal for the pilot group. However, the company proposal was a total turd. Sure, the pay rates were a significant raise across the board...but it also gutted tons of work rules to get there. That simply won't work!

I'm all for PBS, with major language on how schedules/ vacations/ training are awarded and paid. Also, ALPA needs the controls...not the company.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yup. Something to think about in case you guys merge.


Our unions knew we have PBS, AS has line bidding. So for the JCBA, they agreed to only open up scope, pay, and retirement sections to ratify or send to arbitration worse case. Scheduling 25 improvements are going to be handled separately under a MOU. Scheduling improvements have to happen FIRST, then and only then does the company get the ability to start looking at PBS for the combined pilot group. Several advantages to this setup: one, we don't let PBS defer and extend JCBA negotiations. As it stands, we will get our JCBA out by Oct 29th. Two, they don't just get PBS unless they give us some scheduling improvements first. Three, it gives both sides lots of time to get the merger done, operations integrated, one list, etc. without having to do just what you said: spend another year tying to iron out details, while we wait for things we need now.
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To sign off on PBS I'm going to go ahead and need Southwest's scope and minimum days off, and Delta's pay rates, profit sharing.

Lol.
 
pete2800 said:
To sign off on PBS I'm going to go ahead and need Southwest's scope and minimum days off, and Delta's pay rates, profit sharing.

Lol.
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Relax a little dude, if ALPA is in charge of PBS it won't be that bad. I want to get paid too but if you really expect to have the best of everything you aren't being realistic at all. Last time I checked PBS seems to be becoming the new industry standard so you can't demand the world in order to accept something that is standard. Spirit deserves a fair deal but anyone who holds out for what you are asking for is going to screw us all by causing months if not years of delays in pay that we needed for some time already. That said the proposal was sub par and nothing any of us would had agreed to.
 
I don't know if I want GH at our ALPA scheduling committee being in charge of PBS pairings. He builds himself a nice transition conflict line every month and union drops everything anyways.

For GH specifically, I think PBS would cost him a lot of money versus the line bidding he does now - the average joe line pilot? - dunno it would have to depend on the rules and conditions that we're able to secure before agreeing to it.
 
Only a smaller percentage of people are able to conflict bid successfully. I'd say 20%. However when it works, it's great.

If the price is right, I'll vote for a TA with PBS. But what Bendo put out, he got rid of all the soft pay (nearly so) and gave us Allegiant pay. Eff that.

I'm glad the NC said no to that. What an embarrassment.
 
Nark said:
Only a smaller percentage of people are able to conflict bid successfully. I'd say 20%. However when it works, it's great.

If the price is right, I'll vote for a TA with PBS. But what Bendo put out, he got rid of all the soft pay (nearly so) and gave us Allegiant pay. Eff that.

I'm glad the NC said no to that. What an embarrassment.
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Any time the company tries to go around the union, it's always a crap sandwich and the members need to tell the company to shove it up their ass.
If it were a good deal, they'd have been able to come to an agreement with the union on it.
Things like this are only for the purpose of breaking solidarity.
 
z987k said:
Any time the company tries to go around the union, it's always a crap sandwich and the members need to tell the company to shove it up their ass.
If it were a good deal, they'd have been able to come to an agreement with the union on it.
Things like this are only for the purpose of breaking solidarity.
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The strike vote results told the company just that. FUPM
 
So in addition to the company email, they mailed the proposal to my house. I would think that is not a normal thing to do.

Oh and it cost them $1.19 in postage to do so, was doing that really worth 2 grand to the company?
 
Not to mention that those were mailed out Friday morning. For those of you keeping score, negotiations ended Saturday morning just after midnight. They had not intentions of coming to AN agreement.
 
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Mine was postmarked saturday, but either way to send out that many in quick order had some pre planning involved.
 
wheelsup said:
I much prefer PBS to line bidding as long as vacation increases in line

Your experiences with PBS could be great or it could absolutely suck

I would be cautious on holding out too long for incremental improvements. Get a decent contract with a shorter time period perhaps with a me too clause and be done with it. Swinging for the fences rarely works out in pilots favor.
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I much prefer PBS for monthly bidding. At 45% I get whatever I want.

However, it's a job killer. It's the reason for some of the stagnation at AA now. It requires at least 5% fewer pilots, probably more.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
I much prefer PBS for monthly bidding. At 45% I get whatever I want.

However, it's a job killer. It's the reason for some of the stagnation at AA now. It requires at least 5% fewer pilots, probably more.
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Stagnation? Aren't you guys hiring 7% of your seniority list every year?
 
CirrusMonkey said:
Yeah thats weird. Mine was postmarked on Friday.
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Either way, "Hey we are dealing with a hurricane and had to move our entire operation out of Miramar, let's send a mass mailing to all of our pilots!"

The email was enough and I'm sure just about everyone has seen it by now, but the mailing and the fact they spent so much to send what we got in said email, should be pissing everyone off.
 
jtrain609 said:
Stagnation? Aren't you guys hiring 7% of your seniority list every year?
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Not 7% this year, close to 4.5% more than likely.

I guess I'm spoiled. We still have movement but parking old airplanes, PBS, combining international and domestic and the first combined bid between US and AA have slowed things down some.
 
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