spins

[sorrygottarunway]

did any of you, as fresh CFIs, experience a large number of "slightly-incipient" spins when you were teaching stalls? I can do the stalls just fine from the right seat, but I think I'm mostly using feel for these things, while I try to get my student to keep the ball centered. He probably is using too much or too little rudder control (power on stalls), but "keep the ball centered" just isn't working as a suggestion.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I've only experienced one incipient spin from a student. In this case, a power-on stall, the problem wasn't the failure to keep coordinated during the set up, but rather to maintain coordination when the stall broke. He failed to release the pressure and we dipped heavily to the right. Fortunately, I saw it coming and recovered after only a 1/4 turn.

I think you are right, "keep the ball centered" doesn't cut it. The student should be able to do the stalls and slow flight with the turn coordinator covered. I think we give the ball way too much significance. Like all visual flying, coordination should be maintained by looking out the window.

In the straight ahead versions of anything, including stalls, coordination simply means that when the wings are level, the nose isn't moving sideways (yawing). Period. The secret is to teach the student to recognize that movement visually (with butt-feel also, but since we're usually sitting on the CG I think that most of us don't really feel yaw until it gets really bad.

Once we get used to seeing that movement, it can be used even in turning maneuvers.

 

[Grabo172]

[ QUOTE ]
did any of you, as fresh CFIs, experience a large number of "slightly-incipient" spins when you were teaching stalls?

but "keep the ball centered" just isn't working as a suggestion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take them up to 5-6000 ft so there's plenty of room and let them do some stalls... if they aren't coordinated and get into a spin... it'll teach them!

I had a student once that I did that to because he just wouldn't keep it coordinated and once he got through about a 2 turn spin and we recovered (actually I recovered, he was crapping himself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif) he NEVER did an uncoordinated stall again...

But you have to be careful with that though... don't want to scare them out of the air... just to respect what the airplane can do if you don't control it.

 

[E_Dawg]

Seems to work okay for me:
Get them looking outside by covering all the instruments. Make them do stalls looking out the side window since they can't see over the nose. They're holding heading if they see that the terrain isn't moving 'sideways'. They're coordinated if the wings are level when that happens. A lot of people try to use ailerons in the recovery, if that's a big thing try getting some rope around the yoke so they can pitch but not roll the plane, forcing them to use rudder.

From what I've seen the people who stall 'on instruments' are the ones who overcontroll, tense up, and tend to drop a wing. The ones who can fly visually do better; if they hold pressure on BOTH rudders the wing is less likely to drop (dunno why) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems to work okay for me:
Get them looking outside by covering all the instruments. Make them do stalls looking out the side window since they can't see over the nose. They're holding heading if they see that the terrain isn't moving 'sideways'. They're coordinated if the wings are level when that happens. A lot of people try to use ailerons in the recovery, if that's a big thing try getting some rope around the yoke so they can pitch but not roll the plane, forcing them to use rudder.

From what I've seen the people who stall 'on instruments' are the ones who overcontroll, tense up, and tend to drop a wing. The ones who can fly visually do better; if they hold pressure on BOTH rudders the wing is less likely to drop (dunno why) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Stall on instruments? Stall on INSTRUMENTS? LOL. Agree with your points, Ed. We are teaching contact flying here, not instruments. They're a good help, but shouldn't be the primary reference during these maneuvers.

 

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people try to use ailerons in the recovery, if that's a big thing try getting some rope around the yoke so they can pitch but not roll the plane, forcing them to use rudder.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always thought the CFI's knees were cheaper than rope. Might hurt a little, depending on how enthusiastically your student tries to roll the plane.