Spin Training/Endorsement

MikeOH58

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
This afternoon I go up for my spin endorsement flight for the CFI...I'm pretty excited...It was a hell of a time just finding a place to do this with...Oddly enough, finding a cessna to rent in south west connecticut isn't so easy...seems like everyone has pipers....That, and when I did finally find a cessna, the CFI at the school wasnt comfortable doing spins......:banghead:

As it would turn out, i'm going to Danbury Flight School, and flying in their 152...I've never done a spin before, but I do have a good idea of what to expect...We'll see how accurate those expectations were after the first spin lol....Everyone keeps telling me, whatever I do, just make sure to do my first spin to the left hehe...

any tips?
 
Like you, my first spins were for my CFI. In my case it was a 172 with an excellent instructor. Other than what I learned in reading, I didn't really have any firm expectations.

The only real tip I have is to make sure that =you= feel proficient at the end of the training. The endorsement can often come with minimal training. In my case, those first few spins were disconcerting. Looking our the front window and seeing an intersection spinning around was not my idea of what I really want to see while flying :eek:. Although I was able to handle them by the time we landed and my CFI was willing to give me the endorsement, I told him not to. I wanted to go up again because I wasn't satisfied that I could comfortably demonstate what we did and I didn't want the endorsement until I could.

So we went up a second time (this time in a Citabria :) ). It was downright fun!!

What you get out if it is dependent on who you do them with (sounds like in your area, you're likely going with a "specialist" since there seem to be so few, so it should be good training) and, mostly, you. Aerodynamically, they are really not a big deal, but different people will react to them in differet ways.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
The only real tip I have is to make sure that =you= feel proficient at the end of the training. The endorsement can often come with minimal training.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

Looking back on my own spin training, it was inadequate, and downright incorrect in some areas, because I didn't do enough of it, nor did I do it with a CFI who was comfortable spinning. I got signed off after demo'ing a couple spins in each direction. There was no talking my way through it, no demos on the effects of power in the spin or spin entry, no demo of more than one or two turns, no discussion of how a student could put us in to a spin, etc. Obviously something is better than nothing, but I believe an instructor applicant should understand spins on a much deeper level.

My opinion is that it is very difficult to get proficient enough in the first flight to be able to teach them. I wish I had taken two, maybe even three flights when I did my training.

In a spin, everything happens quickly and it takes a few tries to be able to digest what is going on. I think one flight is enough for an overview, so say, a student pilot understands how to get in and out of spins, but a second flight is needed to see all the subtlties (sp?), common real-world scenarios of how students can put a plane in to a spin, etc. That's the stuff an instructor needs to know.
 
alphaone said:
What's so difficult about recovering from a spin?
Click to expand...

In a Cessna, with plenty of altitude, and the aircraft in the utility category, nothing really. It is just the abruptness from going to a pitched up condition, to being pitched straight towards the ground, spinning. It happens pretty fast. The FAA wants to make sure the CFI applicant knows how quickly it happens, doesn't panic, and makes the corrections necessary to get out of it.
 
Boy, spins are fuuuunn stuff man.. :)

I remember my first spins in the 172.. They were with none other than Captain Bob here.. I bet he remembers the spins... ;)
 
Spins aren't that bad. The Cessnas tend to recover themselves if you don't wind them up too much.

It isn't that violent of a maneuver and is easily recoverable. The biggest thing you have to get used to is the sudden drop of the wing and giant pitch change.

Just remember PARE and you will be fine. I found them to be quite fun.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Just remember PARE and you will be fine. I found them to be quite fun.
Click to expand...

PARE will indeed make it easier to remember, especially if you find yourself in an spin you didn't mean to enter..

Like say, trying to do a hammerhead for the first time and not really knowing what you SHOULD do and doing the waay wrong thing.. Next thing you know your on your back spinning towards the earth..

PARE! PARE!

There's also the Beggs technique but it doesn't work in all airplanes..

Here is a good link worth memorizing..

http://www.ozaeros.com/spin/beard.htm
 
Geez, how do you go through your training without spinning a few times, at least on accident? Hell, if I wen to do 3 power on stalls this afternoon one would certainly end up in a spin.
 
alphaone said:
What's so difficult about recovering from a spin?
Click to expand...

Nothing, really, if the pilot knows what's going on.

The problem is that spins can happen suddenly and unexpectedly if the pilot is distracted, and it's important not to panic if the unexpected happens.

They also aren't intuitive to recover from. If the plane is pitched down and banking to the left, instinct is to pull back and apply right aileron. If you're in a spin, that's the wrong answer.

And finally, and most importantly IMO, just like any maneuver, a good CFI ought to be able to explain the "*why* it's this way" rather than simply saying "*do* it this way."

Any monkey can apply the control inputs to recover from a spin. It takes a little more skill to explain what's happening, why it's happening, and what to do about it, all *while* it's happening. That's why CFI training it important. It develops most skills a few levels deeper.
 
Holy Crap Balls! That was prolly the most fun i've ever had in an airplane!!!! what a freaking blast! My only regret is that I don't personally know anyone with a cessna, citabria or other spin approved airplane, to go up and spin the hell out of every week!

Doing spins was a very big confidence builder, and i'm suprised its not mandatory for the ppl. Its one thing going up with a CFI to do them...It's another to be alone and accidently get yourself in one...I thought recovery was ridicously easy, however, i'm definately glad I experienced them with someone in the plane rather than alone...

In regards to recovery, I found it to be very instinctual. I found myself immediately using opposite rudder of the spin, and i'd have to force myself to take my foot off so I could spin some more hehe....

What a blast though...And seriously...If anyone in the Connecticut area ever wants to go up for a day of spinning, please PM me......

Good times, and I can't wait to start doing a lot more of these!
 
I did mine over a period of two lessons, the second being with a hood on.

Scary at first, but after doing a few it was downright fun.
 
MikeOH58 said:
Holy Crap Balls! That was prolly the most fun i've ever had in an airplane!!!! what a freaking blast! My only regret is that I don't personally know anyone with a cessna, citabria or other spin approved airplane, to go up and spin the hell out of every week!
Click to expand...

Awesome, very glad to hear you liked it!

MikeOH58 said:
And seriously...If anyone in the Connecticut area ever wants to go up for a day of spinning, please PM me......

Good times, and I can't wait to start doing a lot more of these!
Click to expand...

Not sure if your instructor went over the regs with you regarding spins, but make sure if you do them with a passenger you're both wearing approved parachutes. Spins are considered aerobatics and all the same rules apply (must be at least 4 miles off airway, can't be over a city, must be wearing a parachute unless you're alone, etc.)

The only times you're exempt from wearing a parachute are when you're doing them with an instructor for the sake of training, or when you're solo.

Have fun!
 
Now you should grab a Super-Decthlon and do some inverted spins :) Those blew my mind the first time around. From the pilot's perspective you are rolling in one direction while yawing in another.

I'm a big fan of aerobatics and am glad you got a taste.
 
Realms09 said:
Now you should grab a Super-Decthlon and do some inverted spins :) Those blew my mind the first time around. From the pilot's perspective you are rolling in one direction while yawing in another.

I'm a big fan of aerobatics and am glad you got a taste.
Click to expand...

Well i'm thinking when I pass my CFI in January i'm going to go up to executive flyers in Boston, and treat myself to a couple aerobatic flights in their Decathlon as a reward!

By the way...Do the gyros in pure aerobats work differently than in a normal/utility airplane or do they still tumble to death?
 
I used to do a ton of spin training in 150s and 152s. I didn't think these airplanes were very good "spinners" because it was almost impossible to keep them stalled. After 1 1/2 turns in the spin...the airplane would become unstalled and the airspeed would increase and begin to spiral.

Some of the more "aerobatic" airplanes that were mentioned...citabria, chipmunk, etc are much more fun to spin. They stay fully stalled as long as the stick is back and is much more fun. If you ever get the chance to do some flying in an aerobatic airplane...you'll have a blast.
 
MikeOH58 said:
Well i'm thinking when I pass my CFI in January i'm going to go up to executive flyers in Boston, and treat myself to a couple aerobatic flights in their Decathlon as a reward!

By the way...Do the gyros in pure aerobats work differently than in a normal/utility airplane or do they still tumble to death?
Click to expand...

I would HIGHLY recomend the EFA route as I am one of the instructors that taught that as well as the unusual attitude courses. Hands down some of the finest instruction you will get regarding aerobatics and or upset recovery training anywhere. They dont just have CFIs with spin endorsements and a few loops under their belts running the show, they have years and years of experience as well as competition hours under their belts.

aerobatic airplanes do not have gyros per se, a simple wet compass takes the place of the DG and there is no attitude indicator and a very simplified turn coordinator. There is no need for them in day vfr flight
N298PC_Panel.jpg

N214EX_Panel.jpg


These are both of EFAs airplanes so you can see their panels..not too bad

let me know if you have any questions

and on a side note...please after just one spin flight do not take up passengers to show of your new skills. Spin recovery is not very difficult but it takes considerable practice to start to become comfortable and truly profficient. EFA will run you through a few scenarios to sharpen your skills.
1. A normal 1 g entry
2. A spin from a slipping turn (kind of looks like a snap roll if you enter from a steep turn with sharp rudder and control inputs)
3. A spin from a skidding turn (base to final)
4. A spin from the top of a loop inverted (and no, its not an inverted spin)
 
There is no fixed cost but the plane rents for around 150 an hour I believe and the CFI cost around 55 an hour, it is not cheap but good specialty instruction in a good specialty airplane is not cheap.

To do just the basic spins I mentioned above you are looking at an hour or so of ground and probably no more than 1.2 of flight (typically no one makes it past that because they will feel ill or just worn out) so it may need to be done in two flights.

as for the unusual attitudes syllabus it is around 7 lessons I believe with 1 or so hours per flight with some ground as well

the acro course which is enough to prepare you to compete at the primary level in the IAC as well as gets you a tailwheel endorsement is around 10-12 hours depending on your skill and how well you pick up the information being taught.

It is not cheap but a simple 1 hour flight will teach the average Cfi applicant more about spins then they could ever experience in a 172 and someone who "has spun before" as the instructor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top