Spin endorsement for CFI............

jafra98

jafra98

Well-Known Member
How far in advance can you get the endorsement before starting CFI training? If you can get it before. Also, does the endorsement has an expiration date before you have to take the checkride?
 
you can get the spin training any time- even before your PPL if you want. And same as with the High Performance, Complex A/C, Tailwheel and High Altitude endorsements, It has no expiration.
 
No expiration, or time limit. You just have to get the endorsement to be a CFI applicant. Do your self and every student you will teach a favor and go take an actual spin training course from a qualified CFI. In an approved airplane, the CFI should not be afraid to show you how various power conditions, rotation directions, and control inputs affect and aggravate the spin. It should be more than just one flight. A half a rotation in a 172 is NOT sufficient....

Here's an example:
http://www.cpaviation.com/emt.html#emtmodules

Completion of Module 1 get you a CFI spin endorsement.
 
Mike H said:
you can get the spin training any time- even before your PPL if you want.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. It would be somewhat interesting to see how a CFI would justify giving an endorsement that says that someone who is not yet even a private pilot "possesses instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures."

"No, he's not yet ready to solo, but he can sure teach spins!"
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It would be somewhat interesting to see how a CFI would justify giving an endorsement that says that someone who is not yet even a private pilot "possesses instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures."

"No, he's not yet ready to solo, but he can sure teach spins!"
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Back in the old days (10 years ago at least), it was required to teach spins to PPL students. I don't see a problem teaching it whenever.
 
RocketMan said:
Doing mine next week in an Extra 300, can't wait!
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I'm crazy jealous. I want pictures, and a full recap.

Mike H said:
Define "Instructional Proficiency"
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Would be up to the instructor to determine, but assuming the instructor is worth his salt I don't think it'd be much of an issue if done correctly. A spin endorsement isn't just a run through the motions, spin the plane a few times and be done with it.

jafra98 just make sure whoever gives you the endorsement is a 2 year CFI, as it is a requirement for initial CFI...Unless, you do the CFII as the initial, in which case you only need the endorsement for your add-on, and since it'd be an add-on the 2yr req wouldn't apply.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Back in the old days (10 years ago at least), it was required to teach spins to PPL students. I don't see a problem teaching it whenever.
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Far more than 10 years ago. Maybe 3-4 times that.

I don't see any problem with teaching spins whenever either. But we're not talking about spin training. At least based on the posted topic, we're talking about the CFI endorsement requirement that the applicant is competent to teach spins, stall awareness, etc.

If you would be comfortable certifying that a pre-PPL student pilot is competent to teach spins, stall awareness, etc, at the level where she would pass a CFI practical test on the task, go ahead.
 
The term "instructional knowledge" is defined in the Flight Instructor's PTS:

"The term 'instructional knowledge' means the instructor applicant is capable of using the appropriate reference to provide the 'application or correlative level of knowledge' of a subject matter topic, procedure, or maneuver. It also means that the flight instructor applicant's discussions, explanations, and descriptions should follow the recommended teaching procedures and techniques explained in FAA-H-8083-9 Aviation Instructor's Handbook."
 
So you're saying no PPL student could possibly demonstrate instructional knowledge (or proficiency) of stalls & spins?
 
Mike H said:
So you're saying no PPL student could possibly demonstrate instructional knowledge (or proficiency) of stalls & spins?
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Not at all. But it's highly unlikely . How likely is it that a student pilot who has just soloed would be able to demonstrate CFI-level knowledge, proficiency and the ability to instruct others in landings?

"Possible?" Sure. There are indeed people who so naturally come to certain activities or to teaching that they could teach just about anything once they get even a small exposure to it. But that's a pretty small segment of the population.
 
Agreed, it's highly unlikely in today's mass "fear-of-spins" flight instructing schools, but an enlightened individual who really comes to learn all about flying will naturally learn to do spins and all possible types of stalls. It is the natural process of learning to fly- to become the master of the machine - not learning a minimal amount to pass a rote test.
These individuals can, and should be, encouraged to become instructors, and not be discouraged by the naysayers who continue to huddle amongst the masses in fear of anything "out of the ordinary", or beyond the rote PTS and FAR requirements.

That being said, I would re-emphasize what has already been said, that the CFI Spin Endorsement is NOT a couple of spin demos, which is what the masses are doing these days.

The endorsement uses the specific words "is competent and possesses instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures..."

Getting proficient in stalls and spins isn't that hard. It's a stick-and-rudder thing.
Teaching it comes natural to some people. Even at the start.
 
Just to add to what's been written about the current state of CFI spin training. A great number of spin accidents involve CFIs (I think it runs in the 80+% range). As this is the one group actually required to undergo spin training it indicates that CFIs are not really getting "instructional proficiency" in this task. Personally I would welcome greater scrutiny by the FAA of CFIs who sign off pilots as "instructionally proficient" in stalls/spins who are subsequently involved in spin accidents. Maybe if they spent less time going after pilots who do right hand patterns...
 
Blackhawk said:
Just to add to what's been written about the current state of CFI spin training. A great number of spin accidents involve CFIs (I think it runs in the 80+% range).
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If the numbers are like that, it's a major problem.

But even worse than the state of CFI spin training, it could mean one of two other things:
  • CFIs who know that they have had minimal spin training and/or are not maintaining spin proficiency are taking students up and spinning with them.
  • The FAA has been right all along in removing spin training as a requirement. Remember that it was based on similar statistics generated during a time when spin training was required and the pilot/CFI population presumably fare more proficient in them than now.
 
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