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Okay Gentlemen...I understand what you're talking about. But all I hear from airline recruiters and other pilots say that the FBOs are a waste of time. They dont have the placements that the academies do. I've read the site. And haven't read too many success stories of people going FBO and making it to the airlines. I want a job, and not to be instructing at that FBO for a year or two flying 152's building time. The whole reason I brought up this topic is because the FBO isn't working right now..and all I hear is go to an FBO. I am..its too slow. 4 months on my private and only 8 hours. You'd be a little distressed too.

B

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What airline recruiters? The ones at the Academies? Of course they are going to tell you anything you want to hear and will continue to blow smoke up your ass to get your money.

FBO's work and will continue to do so. I know many who have made it to the airlines and everyone else on this site knows some too.

And it isn't the FBO's fault you have only flown 4 hours, it is yours. Pretty much every instructor here can vouch and say that students decide the fate of their training. Ya'll can come up with every excuse in the book to not fly or the fact you aren't there.
 
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Okay Gentlemen...I understand what you're talking about. But all I hear from airline recruiters and other pilots say that the FBOs are a waste of time. They dont have the placements that the academies do. I've read the site. And haven't read too many success stories of people going FBO and making it to the airlines. I want a job, and not to be instructing at that FBO for a year or two flying 152's building time. The whole reason I brought up this topic is because the FBO isn't working right now..and all I hear is go to an FBO. I am..its too slow. 4 months on my private and only 8 hours. You'd be a little distressed too.

B

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Sounds like you need to find a different FBO....I got my private through an FBO in only 5 weeks and at a cost of only $3,200, that was with weather cancellations too (damn thunderstorms). You should be able to go at your own pace at an FBO and get done as fast as you want...just as fast as any academy if not faster. FBO instructors are drooling over the chance to get a motivated student willing to fly every day, trust me.

I don't know who told you these airline placement #'s, but they are simply not true. Hell, I have two good friends that just got hired at ExpressJet this summer that have never seen anything but an FBO....and there is plenty of others on this board that have done the same. I'd bet that there are more hired out of college flight programs and FBO's than big academies.

The airlines could care less where you got your ratings...as long as you have them, you have just as good a shot of being hired as anyone else. If anyone tells you differently they are LYING and trying to get your money!

and for the comment about not wanting to instruct for a year or two, you just wanna get hired.....good luck with that one, a few get by with other routes...but not many, instructing is THE way to go. You may not realize it now but you'll learn much more from instructing than you ever did getting your ratings.

I'd also recommend Ari-ben aviator...I paid $27,000 for Inst. through MEI and 200 hours of that are multi time...can't beat that!!
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"And it isn't the FBO's fault you have only flown 4 hours, it is yours"

It's not my fault. I'm training in Upstate NY. FBOs are fine for instructing. And the airline recruiter is a personal friend, not a staff member of the academy. Like I said I'd rather have a guarenteed interview with a regional than a nothing with an FBO. I want my ratings, and I cannot do it without the decent weather or the funding that academies offer.

B
 
I got my PPL in 4 weeks at an FBO. This was in Wisconsin in November. Had I continued my instrument rating at that time & speed, my instructor estimated I'd have had that in another 2-3 weeks.

In fact, that reminds me that tomorrow is the 3rd anniversary of my passing my PPL ride!
 
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My general question is basically...Is it possible to pay off the loan? What if I get done with my ratings, ready to go to the airlines and theres no jobs. I'll tell you what...I start getting a bill for $600.00/month. RAA will keep me on as an instructor as long as I want to stay, but only on a $1,500/month salary. Not my idea of a good time.


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Okay, let's get back to the original question here.

I'm sorry to tell you that there are no guarantees in this industry. Your job is never 100% safe (I'm proof of that).

You may end up with a massive loan payment, and no airline job to pay it off. That is one of the 'risks' you take. That is why we eat ramen noodles and live with our parents if we have to, and generally live as cheap as possible. If you're not willing to take the chance of not having that airline job and having a massive loan payment, then maybe you need to seriously re-think your plan.

Pilots have been known to work at Office Max, sell cars, anything necessary to make ends meet when flying jobs are few and far between. Sacrifices are sometimes made.
 
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My general question is basically...Is it possible to pay off the loan? What if I get done with my ratings, ready to go to the airlines and theres no jobs. I'll tell you what...I start getting a bill for $600.00/month. RAA will keep me on as an instructor as long as I want to stay, but only on a $1,500/month salary. Not my idea of a good time.


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It certainly helps if you don't go to a school that rips you off like that!!! My loan payments are less than half that amount. You really need to look at some of the cheaper flight schools like Ari-Ben or ATP if you are against the FBO idea. They are a helluva lot better deal then RAA....and I think just about everyone here that has been around for awhile will agree with me.
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btw- are you even guaranteed an instructor job at RAA....I don't know for sure but I doubt it. I'd get it in writing....no guarantees in this business.
 
THANK YOU. You're first person to actually give me an honest answer without criticizing my decision to go to an academy. I know everyone is trying to help, but the problem is financing. You cannot get educational loans through FBOs like you can academies.

b
 
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You cannot get educational loans through FBOs like you can academies

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sure you can - Sallie Mae financing

most of the big academies also use Sallie Mae or Key Bank.
 
I was like you when I first started to come to this site 3 years ago. I visited DCA (Comair Academy back then) bought into the hype. After reading what people had to say about most the academys changed my mind. I narrowed my choices down to Ari-Ben and ATP. By what everyone here has told me they are both good schools and will not bankrupt you. I finally decided on ATP mainly beacause I will not have to move (don't want to quite my job yet). I plan on starting there next spring. You can get a Key loan or a Sallie Mae loan to go to either school. Good luck.
 
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Okay Gentlemen...I understand what you're talking about. But all I hear from airline recruiters and other pilots say that the FBOs are a waste of time. They dont have the placements that the academies do. I've read the site. And haven't read too many success stories of people going FBO and making it to the airlines. I want a job, and not to be instructing at that FBO for a year or two flying 152's building time. The whole reason I brought up this topic is because the FBO isn't working right now..and all I hear is go to an FBO. I am..its too slow. 4 months on my private and only 8 hours. You'd be a little distressed too.

B

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As "The Man" of the website says "Network...Network...Network".

P.S. - When I say "The Man", I say it in a down by law kind of way.
 
Smitty,

Although the academies offer good training (so do FBOs BTW). They are so overrated.

These places will take a 172/Warrior slap a fancy school name on it and sell it to people for twice the price of an FBO.

When you have the magical 1500TT/100ME the airlines couldnt give a rip if your first 250 at X-academy or mom and pops flyin club.
 
"But all I hear from airline recruiters and other pilots say that the FBOs are a waste of time."

I disagree. Airline recruiters are paid to tell you that.

"They dont have the placements that the academies do."

Placements??? what do you need a placement for? It's like this...you go to a flight school, you get your ratings up through CFI, you get a job as a CFI, you spend some valuable time instructing, then you get a regional job. You never answered my question before about the quals to get "the interview" at DCA....so I'll tell ya. You gotta have instructed there for 800 hours at $10 a hour. How long do you think it takes to get your CFI? Let's assume 300 hours. Then, you work there 800 hours to get "the interview". Now you have 1100 total. You get your guaranteed interview but I know guys getting interviews at XJT right now with the same times. Who needs a guaranteed interview or placement? I just don't get it.....

"And haven't read too many success stories of people going FBO and making it to the airlines"

Then you aren't paying attention or researching this forum. I have had several buddies "make it to the airlines" via flight schools and instructing.

"I want a job, and not to be instructing at that FBO for a year or two flying 152's building time."

Well...there's your problem. You aren't willing to pay your dues. You just want to be an airline pilot and you want it NOW? You could learn a lot instructing in a 152 for a year. Of course, the recruiters won't tell you that. They want to sell you an RJ type rating.

"I am..its too slow. 4 months on my private and only 8 hours."

So...what's up with that? Makes no sense. That's 2 hours a month or basically, one flight a month. Weather can't be that bad. If you don't fly AT LEAST once a week, you are wasting your time and money.

You make claims about no financing at part 61 schools. I'd refer you to www.pilotfinance.com
 
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THANK YOU. You're first person to actually give me an honest answer without criticizing my decision to go to an academy. I know everyone is trying to help, but the problem is financing. You cannot get educational loans through FBOs like you can academies.

b

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH How many times do we have to repeat it?????????
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You don't have to go to a big academy to get financing for flight training!!!!!!!!!! Anyone that tells you any differently is flat out wrong - I don't know wether they're lying to you or simply misinformed but they are WRONG! My wife is a Financial Aid Administrator and I have my fair share of education loans - PM me if you'd like and I will send you dozens of contacts that will finance this type of training.

I'd like to throw out some of my own advice to you - I have very few hot buttons but you happened to hit 3 of them with one post - personal responsibility, flight academies, and telling people they're wrong. I blow up and rant on very rare occasion but this is going to be a big one so hang on.

At first I didn't know wether this was a real post or not - if you had read the website at all you'd know what our general feeling was about the large pilot academies - especially after some of the discussions here recently(poor Don is probably in a hospital somewhere being treated for high blood pressure) - and this coupled with the fact that you're a new user indicated to me that this may be classic flame bait but it appears that you are in fact real so I guess I'll reply now.

Dude, it's nobody's fault but your own that your training is progressing so slowly. I know what part of "upstate NY" TC3 is in - I was based in Binghamton for 2 years - the weather is NOT THAT BAD up there!!! I know you're young so let this be a life lesson - you need to take some personal responsibility for things/situations that happen in your life. Things won't always be handed to you on a platter in life - if something isn't happening to your satisfaction then make it happen!! Change FBO's if you need to - I know there is more than 1 airport if that part of the state.

Academies - if you haven't learned this one already then let this be another life lesson - don't believe everything you read just because it's printed on glossy paper. Type ratings don't matter at your stage. Nobody in their right mind would consider a 500 hour pilot competent to act as Pilot in Command of any turbojet even if you do have a piece of paper in your wallet from the FAA saying that you were lucky enough to pass 1 checkride - don't let anyone fool you into thinking they can make you some kind of super pilot. Training to airline standards?? That's a joke - plain and simple. I'm currently going thru ground school for the CRJ at a regional airline. There is a large group of 500 hour wonders in my class from an academy/PFT operation in Florida. Since I have previous airline experience in the CRJ I've been able to sit back a little and watch this all unfold - these guys are struggling big time. Yeah they'll pass the tests and orals and most of them will make it past the sim but does that make them a better pilot than someone from an FBO??? Nope. 500 hour guys sitting in the right seat of jet is just plain dangerous regardless of where they got they're training. There are several airlines that I will avoid if at all possible and 1 I will avoid at all costs because of this. You seem to be he!! bent on going to an academy so I'm not going to try and talk you out of it. If that's what you want to do then by all means go for it! Different strokes for different folks makes the world go 'round. **IF** you insist on going to an academy type program at least look at ATP - they have a pretty decent program - oh wait - I don't think they have to wear the cutsie uniforms so they must not be very professional - better cross that one off the list!

So far in this thread you've had major airline pilots, regional and corporate pilots reply to you that have never set foot in an academy - how is that possible??
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Wow - do you think it might be possible to get a good flying job without going to an academy?? If you don't want to heed our advice that's perfectly fine - you have to do what's right for you - but we've (especially a few of us) have been there, seen it, done it, and heard it from all kinds of flight schools, airlines, training centers, FBO's, and recruiters so all you have to do is repsectfully disagree with us and say "Thanks for the input guys but I feel the best thing for me is to go to XYZ Academy" but please, please, PLEASE don't sit there with your vast amount of industry experience and tell us that we're wrong based on some recruiting literature that you've been reading lately.

Don - have any extra blood prex pills??
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Jason
 
Question.............are you going to listen to anything we have to say? If not, don't waste your time trying to convince us what's right and what's wrong. We've already got our ratings and our jobs.
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We know how it works..........what's good and what's not.................so either take our advice, consider it or go throw RAA a fat check. We don't really care, we're just trying to help cause we've already been down the road you're embarking upon.

Seriously dude, not being a smart ass, just telling it to you straight. Take care and good luck man.
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(poor Don is probably in a hospital somewhere being treated for high blood pressure)

Naw...just on my third beer.

Jason...you call that "going off". I kept waiting for the "going off" part of your post and was sadly dissapointed....hehe.

I don't do blood pressure meds....Black Butte porters work better....
 
You're such a tease, Don! Some of us have to work in the morning! Well, err. commute to work in the morning!
 
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[I'd like to throw out some of my own advice to you - I have very few hot buttons but you happened to hit 3 of them with one post - personal responsibility, flight academies, and telling people they're wrong. I blow up and rant on very rare occasion but this is going to be a big one so hang on.

Jason

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Jason, I think you don't have any personal responsibility, I think you should've gone to a flight academy, and I think you're wrong.

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OK, dude ... you need to pay heed to all the folks on here. My advice would be that flying in New York in winter is a spotty proposition at best. Wait for spring or go south.

Opportunities in this business are what you MAKE of them. Work hard, do a good job, improve your resume, and NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK. I know plenty of FBO-trained people who are at the airlines now. I know plenty of academy grads who are too.

What matters? Total time, multiengine time, and a college degree. Quality employment history, whether instructing, charter, freight, whatever. What doesn't matter? An RJ type rating with no time in type to go with it. A glossy brochure from Pilots-R-Us. A phony-baloney, plastic banana, good-time rock-n-roller bull$hit "guarantee" in said glossy brochure.

Coming here, asking for advice, then completely disregarding it is a bit like going to a Baptist church on Sunday, singing and praying with everyone, then going up front during altar call and proclaiming loudly to the assembled crowd, "THERE IS NO GOD!"
 
I never told any of you that you were wrong. I was just laying out the other side of the story...where I'm sitting from. And for the comment about not flying enough. 5 Lessons a week scheduled, most all of which are cancelled. The weather has been real bad up here lately. I looked at ATP and their success rates are really not that good. 1 pilot hired a month and 5 interviewed?

Would you disagree that timing is everything...? Getting that senority number by 2 years is more important than saving 20G's?

I've talked to other pilots aside from this forum who say that the academy helped them get through and I've talked to a lot of other pilots who also say that the academy is a drain of financial resources.

On the other hand many, like you, (and guys I do respect all of you and what you do) like the FBOs, Ari-Ben etc. Believe me I've researched everything from MPD, DCA, RAA, ATP, Aviator, PIFA, FBOs. True FBOs are cheaper. I'm not arguing with that. A C152 wet where I go now is $60.00. But's it's not worth it when I can only fly 2 hours a month.

The academies work for some people. Sure those FOs in the RJs might only have 500 hours, but they have a job and a seniority number over that 1500TT CFI at the FBO. I look forward to instructing and agree that they're most likely better pilots, but again....they don't have the job.

As true for the other places. Some people the ATPs, ARI-BENs have worked for. But they're have been more success stories from the academies than the other places.

Guys, I'm not trying to say "im right and you're wrong". I'm just giving you more to elaborate on. You've all been here....Thanks really appreciate it.

I'm really looking at ATP and Ari-Ben now. Kind of iffy on the ATP 90-Day Fast Track and my CFI says it's a joke. What would you guys suggest? The 10 month or the 90 Day. Also...Ari-Ben...what can you tell me about them? Their website is "incomplete".


Brett
 
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Would you disagree that timing is everything...? Getting that senority number by 2 years is more important than saving 20G's?

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Once again you are getting this crap from somewhere else. Debt sucks, plain and simple.

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As true for the other places. Some people the ATPs, ARI-BENs have worked for. But they're have been more success stories from the academies than the other places.


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Trust me, ATP has the same amount if not more hired than these other places. They have the gold (ME time!) and that is why they are hired and hired often.

Here is an idea, get your private and instrument rating ASAP then build your time in the cheap 150 flying IFR.

I am sure there are some accelerated courses to get those two done in a couple months.
 
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