BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Yes! Please give me as much info as you want. I spend a lot of time trying to guess what you guys need. Always happy to help.
Speed versus Visual Separation
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
Yes! Please give me as much info as you want. I spend a lot of time trying to guess what you guys need. Always happy to help.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Dustoff?
It won't save you any time. Or at least in a percentage overall, how much time will it save you?
Most importantly. "How much time will it save you in the highest risk environment you will be in?" That is the question I am asking. I know Captain @Derg is well aware of all this but I'm Pt.91 as well and I feel my operation is as safe as what brother Derg does because of vigilance and threat management system. However, because of other Part.91 operators, on paper what I do is less safe.
Dassault recommends being at Ref speed all the way down from the marker. It is because being too fast has been the only way a Falcon 900 has been partially destroyed on landing. You could be flying a KA200 and sure it is totally safe to fly faster after reaching the FAF but from a separation standpoint this isn't helping. You are also adding the risk of finding someones wake turbulence. Maybe you operate out of an uncontrolled 10,000 ft runway and your operation is just as safe as mine but I still don't really see a reason for that. A captains job is to control risk, for real.
A well planned taxi, taking advantage of your aircrafts performance and shortening the taxi or climbing above a headwind will save you far, far more than 20-30 seconds of 40-80 knots faster than you would normally be.
N90-EWR
Well-Known Member
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
lol @ any part 91 operator saying they're as safe or as well-surveilled, self-policed and inspected as a part 121 operator.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
We may not be as inspected as 121 or "well-surveilled" but we do a pretty good job of safety, considering we're just a bunch of rouge cowboys.
Here's my reply to another thread that brought up these issues. It's an NBAA link but it is NTSB data.
From: http://www.nbaa.org/ops/safety/stats/
There's also a chart from 1990-2013
"For example, flights under a “corporate” designation are those in which the aircraft is flown by a two-person, professional crew. For these types of operations, the accident rate in 2010 was 0.07 per 100,000 hours – which is better than that of the scheduled air carriers (0.16 per 100,000 hours). For flights conducted under the “business” category, in which a two-person professional crew is not required, the NTSB's accident rate was 0.79 per 100,000 hours.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
z987k
Well-Known Member
So lets see. Ref(lets call it 130) all the way down from the FAF at 5nm = 2 min 18 seconds
Speed to 200 from 170 for 1.5nm, then slam on the brakes to 130(165 average) in the next 1.5nm(I guess in a tprop), then 130 for the remaining 2nm = 1 min 55 seconds
You saved 23 seconds!!!!! WOW!
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
I really is amazing what some will do, and won't do, to save time isn't it?
z987k
Well-Known Member
What time savings? The wait for one airplane in front of you on taxi will eat 30 seconds.
The number I've heard from TMU is that one minute flight time is equivalent to seven minutes taxiing. So get them on the ground as soon as possible from a fuel burn stance and hopefully the tower can reduce their taxi time to save even more time and fuel...
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
That's what I mean. Doing weird things that don't really save anything, but then not doing something that would actually save a lot of time
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Yeah, that math is about right.
Stinger
Well-Known Member
If I hear a pilot on the radio say he's a flight, any number of any aircraft, I'll let them all land at the same time if they want. Could be 5 CRJs with 4 Bonanzas and I would not care.
Navy Corpus can run 1500 foot runway separation I believe. Might be even 1000 for departures.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Something I routinely do on a 5000' strip with three aircraft...
What's the worst that will happen from your perspective, "Ooh, what was that loud noise? And smoke?"
What's the worst that will happen from your perspective, "Ooh, what was that loud noise? And smoke?"
Generally, ops like that, you'll have a "cold" side of the runway centerline, and a "hot" side. So aircraft, once touching down, edge-off to the cold side for rollout, that way the hot side it open if there is a need for a touch and go of a following aircraft for whatever reason, or if a guy lands behind and has brake issues necessitating him having to pass the cold-side traffic rolling out, without crashing into them from behind.; so he can continue rollout or take the departure end arresting gear.
You're required to tell an aircraft if an overtake exists, it's a requirement of a visual approach.
That being said, if you issue a "follow XXX, cleared visual approach" and THEN issue a hard speed - you're bound to get grief over it.
A "follow" visual approach clearance shifts the separation to the pilot. They may not necessarily be able to do that at the speed you assign. But, if you don't issue a speed you'll see a Captain Happy drop anchor with a 110kt ground speed in a heartbeat.
Sooooo....after issuing a "follow XXXX" visual approach clearance a "traffic you're following is 170 to the marker if you could match that for traffic behind" is a happy place. I'm not telling you that you HAVE to do it (because really, I can't) but I'm letting you know it would be NICE if you did it, you're well spaced, and the guy in front of and behind you is doing it too...
Pretty much eliminates the bitching.
FM_Weasel
Well-Known Member
Why not?
NewYorkophile
Fly Casual
Interesting- we have no such technique (but I think our spacing is bigger). We do 20 seconds sep for visual, and 5000' sep for instrument landings. Our ground roll is typically 3-5k feet, but we can get it stopped in 1500-2000ft if we have to. Reverse thrust helps.