Spec Ops Private?

FlyChicaga

FlyChicaga

Vintage Restoration
So Army folks: Can a private in the US Army be in US Special Forces?

I saw a guy in the terminal yesterday wearing a US Army dress uniform with the Special Forces patch on the sleeve, and pins on the shoulders. Was a private, wearing NO TIE and WHITE SOCKS. I was like WTFO??? Then I began to think that this guy might be a poser. I mean, a private in Special Forces and already giving complete disregard for the uniform? I mean, white socks? No tie? Shirt buttoned all the way up?
 
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So Army folks: Can a private in the US Army be in US Special Forces?

I saw a guy in the terminal yesterday wearing a US Army dress uniform with the Special Forces patch on the sleeve, and pins on the shoulders. Was a private, wearing NO TIE and WHITE SOCKS. I was like WTFO??? Then I began to think that this guy might be a poser. I mean, a private in Special Forces and already giving complete disregard for the uniform? I mean, white socks? No tie? Shirt buttoned all the way up?

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Definate poser.
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Virtually all Spec Ops guys have several years of service. Even if you did go to Buds of PJ training straight out of boot camp, you would be promoted by the time you finished.

Not wearing the uniform properly in public is a definate giveaway. I may have worn white socks with my coveralls when I had been lazy and not done my laundry, but never with my dress uniforms or in public.
 
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So Army folks: Can a private in the US Army be in US Special Forces?

I saw a guy in the terminal yesterday wearing a US Army dress uniform with the Special Forces patch on the sleeve, and pins on the shoulders. Was a private, wearing NO TIE and WHITE SOCKS. I was like WTFO??? Then I began to think that this guy might be a poser. I mean, a private in Special Forces and already giving complete disregard for the uniform? I mean, white socks? No tie? Shirt buttoned all the way up?

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In order to apply for special forces you have to be at least a PFC (private first class, e-3). Usually, by the time they finish the second phase of a three phase training (12-18 months), they should have the rank of specialist or sergeant. Did you see a special forces tab above the patch? Did you see him holding or wearing a green beret? Any SF soldier has a lot of pride, I dont think this guy is one though, I wouldn't make myself look like that if I was SF, unless I was looking for a fight with a NCO. People like this guy should be punched in the face by every soldier and vet especially SF vets.

anthony
 
You're all presuming this cat was active-duty. There ARE National Guard Special Forces units that one can enlist into directly.

And it's not like SF are big on uniforms, anyway; they're always the dudes you see in pics from Iraq and Afghanistan sporting long hair, beards, and shorts--as a duty uniform!
 
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You're all presuming this cat was active-duty. There ARE National Guard Special Forces units that one can enlist into directly.

And it's not like SF are big on uniforms, anyway; they're always the dudes you see in pics from Iraq and Afghanistan sporting long hair, beards, and shorts--as a duty uniform!

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You are right about some SF guys enlisting for those feilds. You can enlist in the Navy with a gaurentee to go to BUDS, AF guys can go to PJ school, ect.

However since these training courses last well over a year, they would have been promoted at least once by the time they are done.

The SF guys like Delta force travel in civilian clothes, and do not wear dress uniforms very often. When they do, they are profesional enough to wear the uniform properly.
 
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You're all presuming this cat was active-duty. There ARE National Guard Special Forces units that one can enlist into directly.

And it's not like SF are big on uniforms, anyway; they're always the dudes you see in pics from Iraq and Afghanistan sporting long hair, beards, and shorts--as a duty uniform!

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Yeah, I know about the Nasty Girl SF forces you can enlist to, actually I had a friend in basic that did that. Any soldier that works with SF can wear the SF patch, but to really be considered an SF soldier uniform wise, you need to be tabbed with SF and Airborne.

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SF guys arent big on uniforms, but when they do wear it, they look really sharp, not like a bum. Nobody really likes wearing that stuff especially to airports. Usually we wear it when we have to like funerals and formals and promotion boards.

anthony
 
A few things to consider...

A private can go to SFAS which is the "Special Forces Selections Course"...upon completion and recommendation he will then go to the SF Q-Course, upon completion he is then promoted to E6 or Staff Sergeant.

Also just because you where that patch pictured above does not mean you are a "Special Forces Operator" you can be attached to an SF Unit with a supporting MOS.

Just my two cents worth of info.

PV2 Large
4th BDE, 1st CAV
Ft. Bliss, Texas

Lean Mean Infantry Machine
 
There is another possibility....

Considering his personal disregard for military bearing, lack of pride in the uniform, and his apparant rank, he could have been recently busted in rank....??? Just a logical guess.

Give him a couple more months and you'll probably see a serial number ironed onto his shirt!!
 
Being ex Canadian Airborne and attached with our JTF unit, this may be possible, but very unlikley. Being a grunt wasn't my fav thing but I tell you what, even my combats were ironed!! The sleve cuffs when rolled up were 3 fingers and NO less. PERIOD. My uniform looked like a poster child whether I liked it or not. I remember getting my garrison boots when we went to the new uni's. We had to have those things like a friggin mirror the next day. I spent 5 hours and 1 1/2 tins of Kiwi getting those boots to snuff. They came to mid calf and the WHOLE thing had to be done. Top to bottom. Man it drove me nuts. Point being, if we take this much pride in how our garrison and combats looked while posted in garrison, imagine what my dress uni looked like.When posted abroad in various countries, the scene was more mellow. Just having completed SF training made me man enough to be proud in myself and to have the self respect and pride to wear it with pride.

Guys in public like that need a A1-C1 attitude adjustment.
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Brent
Mcpl. Airborne Regiment (ret)
 
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...Being a grunt wasn't my fav thing but I tell you what, even my combats were ironed!! The sleve cuffs when rolled up were 3 fingers and NO less. PERIOD. My uniform looked like a poster child whether I liked it or not. I remember getting my garrison boots when we went to the new uni's. We had to have those things like a friggin mirror the next day. I spent 5 hours and 1 1/2 tins of Kiwi getting those boots to snuff...

[/ QUOTE ]I can tell that you and one of our resident "Devil Dogs", Lloyd (mtsu av8er), are going to get along just fine.
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This guy could very well be a private in a supporting MOS. Although, I'm thinking poser. SF dresses how ever they like... In theatre. Garrison is a different story. Their stuff is wrapped up tight.
 
Speaking of seeing Army guys in the terminal:

A few years ago, I flew to Omaha, and when I was getting off the plane, I noticed a bunch of cops waiting at the end of the jetway. Then, I noticed the guy in front of me with a shaved head and black overcoat, and underneath, he was wearing camo pants and boots. As soon as we got off the plane, the cops nabbed him, and an FBI agent started in on him, with like "Did you think you could just leave? Did you not think we'd find you?"

After listening to the cops and agents talking, it turns out that this guy went AWOL from boot camp. Just up and bought a plane ticket and flew home. Didn't even bother changing clothes after taking off!

Maybe this guy did the same thing...
 
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Maybe this guy did the same thing...

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That would explain his choice of urban camo to keep from being nabbed............."the white socks"....
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Brent
 
I have to chime in on this...

I highly doubt this troop was an operator. No one in the community that I have seen would travel like that. I have never known ANY time where an operator (or even a soldier fully out of Basic and AIT for that matter) was ordered to fly in Class A's stateside on commercial air. If an operator was flying stateside, and chose, for whatever reason, to fly in dress uniform (a rare occasion, unless on duty...i.e funeral escort, etc.), he would most certainly have taken the time to square himself away. They don't hand out those berets on the corner, and anyone who had the intestinal fortitude to complete that course of training has demostrated more pride than you have described. I would vote "Poser" on this one (and there is no shortage of dirtbag P.X. soldiers floating around these days).

Remember too, that a non S.F. soldier serving in the group (and authorized to wear the patch) has completed their own rather tough selection course, and is not likely to be such a loser.

The only exceptions to this (not the loser portion...the selection course part...the reservists are also professional soldiers) are reserve or guard units that are assigned to work with a Special Forces group in a suport status, and thereby earn the right (if in a combat zone) to wear the patch on the right shoulder, above the flag, once service is complete. Still, what you describe doesn't match up. S.F. would wear the long tab, with the words "Special Forces", and it would be on the left shoulder as well.

As far as the rank? You could be busted down, I suppose. I still have to cast my vote of [censored] on this one. This is a wartime Army, and there is always going to be a segment of society that wants to achieve false recognition...no better time for those types of goof balls to come out into the public than when we are at war. I could pin a Silver Star on my chest and walk through SFO or DFW, and no one would question it because I wear a combat patch. (only I would know what a maggot I was for it).

There is a special unit in the FBI that has, as a full time job, the task of apprehending peple that falsely wear U.S. uniforms and/or decorations. It is a violation of the U.S. Code, and a Federal crime (even for a civilian to do it), and if caught and convicted, you WILL do Federal time for it (not much...but enough to let you know you made a big error in judgement). Look it up on the web...interesting reading. You wouldn't believe the amount of people seeking this B.S. hero status. When I read the story in Stars and Stripes, I was in shock.

I myself will pass on the false recognition...I've already said goodbye (forever) to a few good friends who earned THEIR recognition over here...posthumous awards and all...I don't think I could stomach perpetrating such a fraud...knowing that my departed buddies are watching me from above. More real heroes are breathing their last breaths every day...I have neither time, nor tolerance for the fake ones. They need mental help, or a good ass beating (...maybe both).

So...there's my $0.02.

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douglas.quayle@us.army.mil
 
This follow on has little to do with the original question, but I had to speak again after re-reading this thread (character flaw of mine, I guess).

I must chuckle once again at the comment in this thread alluding to the idea that it would make a diffrence if the soldier was National Guard ("Nasty Girl") vs. Active Duty. What kind of question is THAT? This is alluding to some type of different standard or lack of adherance to such by S.F. reservists? One is less professional that the other? We are not talking about a kid who went off to 15 weeks at 'Relaxin' Jackson' or 'Lost in the Woods', and then back to Camp Couch to start Junior College...S.F. soldiers don't have a 'slacker component'. You don't go to drill one day at a National Guard armory, and have someone throw you a Green beret. Last I checked, all candidates go to the John F. Kennedy Spec. Warfare school...and as I've been there to watch them graduate, let me assure you that there are no "special" accommodations made for the "weekend warrior". No...only the girls get a different set of standards at Fort Bragg...(that's sure to piss someone off...but tell me how I am wrong?)

Obviously this tone of generalization comes from those who has never served with these folks. Each is entitled to his/her own opinion, but all I've ever asked of my soldiers is to be sure you have your facts straight before you publicly voice an opinion of others. Do your homework, and you'll have a leg to stand on.

I am a soldier with 10 years in boots, currently serving as an activated E-5 aviation SGT in the California Army National Guard...CURRENTLY deployed in the middle east (on my 10th month in the sand...seen service in 9 countries...4 on this tour). Today's forecast...hot and sandy...just like yesterday, and the day before, etc.

I have been active duty (11C), I've been full time Guard, and I have been "weekend warrior" in my time...been to 3 A/D A.I.T.'s and hold 4 MOS'es. My brother is an active duty SF soldier (18B) with 7th group (South and Central American service...now rotating to Afghanistan), and I have personally worked with both active as well as reserve component members of the 19th group, who also operate in my neck of the woods (San Francisco Bay Area)...along with the P.J.'s of the 129th Rescue Wing at Moffet FIeld...so I don't speak out of turn (in my opinion) when I say that ALL members of the SOG community that I have been priviledged to know and work with over the past decade have been absolute professionals in their chosen trade.

The issue of uniform standards in an operator's "job site" is a moot point. Once back in the states, and in uniform, you would be hard pressed to find an ate-up 18 series soldier as far as public appearace is concerned.

Don't let yourself believe for ONE MINUTE that they will let Private Joe Snuffy off the street jump on a plane to "Disneyland", and come home with a "National Guard" green beret. It is earned, and for the weekenders, it's something they WANT to be the best at...they JUMP at the chance to be better than average. Complacency can be a problem with non deployed reservists...I'll admit...but not in THAT group of reservists.
 
As a new CFI, but 12 yr army solider, 18E I'd say there is no diff from the nast guard types or the active guys. There are tons o' posers out there, that want credit for something they didn't do. I served with the active component USASOC units 96th CA, 5SFG, guard 20th SFG, and the old reserve units back in the early 90's 11th SFG. No 18 series guy period would be pimpin in a black coat and bdu trousers, lol. I've flown commercial all over the world, and nobody knew who we were, or what we were doing other than the crew. plain clothes, no crew cut. THe only way anyone knew what we were doing was by the fact that i was the last one on the plane, and first one off to make sure nobody opened the baggage compartment where our weapons were in a lock box. The key component here is that you are dealing with mature individuals, older soldiers, all NCO's or CPT's or higher. PPL that have been around the block, and screened and trained not to stand out. Blend in. Silent professionals. The guard used to have a program that was called REP-63 that pulled ppl off the street and put them thru basic to SFQC straight. THat program is gone. The army has plenty of young,combat vets that can fill the ranks of the 18 series. Just like flying, earn your dues. there are no easy routes. Be a soldier, and earn your place. It's not about saying "hi, i'm SF." It's about being a quiet professional. I have an old recruiting poster that sums it up best. It refers to the beret and says "it says more about him than he can say about himself." True, the support pogues wear the same patch, but unless you see the tab, they are prob just a fake. My 2 cents worth
 
dingo222, you are right.

In the few occasions I have worked with anyone from special ops, you would never have known they were special ops. And they certainly don't talk about it.

There was a guy on the site here a few years ago bragging about all sorts of stuff he did in Afghanistan. And I just kept thinking that if he really did any of what he bragged about, he certainly wouldn't be on the site here bragging about it.
 
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