Speaking of Scabs...

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But when managers start seeing employees as costs to be contained instead of resources, then you need a union.

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However, no one should kid themselves about where Skywest's pay and benefit levels come from.

And as the industry is vividly demonstrating, any manager who doesn't keep costs under control is a piss poor manager.
 
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However, no one should kid themselves about where Skywest's pay and benefit levels come from.

And as the industry is vividly demonstrating, any manager who doesn't keep costs under control is a piss poor manager.

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Agree 100 percent on both issues. It's just the way that you do it. If you give someone a $5 million pat on the back for shafting your company and then say, hey, guys, time for you to cough up another 25 percent and we'll kill your pension, too, that's the wrong way to contain costs. And it won't be effective. Come to someone like that and you'll get the bird, and I'm not talking about the things that you sometimes fly into.

Come to your employees and say, okay, guys, we've gone to GE Capital and told them that we're paying less on our leases or they can come and get the airplanes; we've told our bondholders that they're going to get less money and if they don't like it, we'll default on our bonds since they're junk anyway; and we've put in a 25 percent paycut for our senior managers and it's a different conversation.

It's all about respect for the employees. In this industry, what's the one major that's making money known for?
 
Tony's right on the money, but unfortunately people like him (and the rest of us) are not allowed into upper management because we're not greedy SOBs.

As for Skywest, they'll be union within 2 years. I've spoken with quite a few of their pilots about the good and bad of going ALPA, and the last vote was very close.
 
Hello Philosophere, [ QUOTE ]
Forgive my ingorance, but can one be an airline pilot without joining the union? I know that in certain states, such as PA, if I work at a Union shop, I must join the union, regardless of my preference. (Yet another reason I don't like them.)


[/ QUOTE ] I've always wondered that. After all, the employer hires you & work for the employer, not the union. Regardless, it should be easy enought to update contracts to state that if you cross a picket line, you can't work at at union airline. Wouldn't that stop picket crossing?

JR
 
There are many more resources available in an aviation union that merely taking your money. As Doug mentioned, next time you scratch an airplane or get sick, you'll be very glad you're in.
 
Yes, but keep in mind that the media corporate America have been on a massive, highly-effective PR assault over organized labor for the past 30 years.

Company "offers"; Union "demands".

Lots more talk about labor "strikes" than company "lockouts"

Primarily one of the reasons why you always hear that all airline pilots make $300G's a year...

"They only work 70 hours a month!"

Then there's always the 'rack video' of a caterpiller-hat wearing diner down at the local Waffle House saying "I work 60 hours a week for $7.50 and these guys make $300/hr and only work 70 hours a month?"
 
Hello Bog,

Thanks! I understand you're point. However, rather than unofficial scab lists being passed around, why not just make it that once you cross a picket line you can no longer fly for unionized airline (after the initial strike is over)? Also put in renewed contracts that only union pilots can fly (except for tenured "management" pilots"). The point is to make it impossible for a picket crosser to fly after the strike is over.

Thanks,

JR
 
The whole idea of them working in upper management is they got a sweet deal from management to go over to the other side. Simple economics of getting a bigger deal with stock options and better pay. They made out like bandits. Trust me they are still there. Now ask the pilots about the former negetioter how he got his job, and his fellow pilots will say they were sold out Now the reason we at expressjet were kicked out of the combined mec is because of the houston reps is more unified and have the leverage to block anything else the other bases would have needed. Basically they held out to kick us out and it took multiple votes to do it. They treatened to not pass anything to help the union for almost the next two years. Also, Alpa forgave them when we voted alpa back in, so techinically clean sheets. I know people who carry the list with them and will deny them a jumpseat in a heartbeat, I just dont care about something that happened when I was dealing with puberty, so I dont deny access to the jumpseat. I dont agree with what they did but I wont hold a jumpseat war with them. Also be my luck when trying to jumpseat somewhere, the captian would be the one who I denied a jumpseat to. I was a little embarassed when the union was combined, now it is a moot point. The houston cal ca and fo reps and mec chairman are all listed for verification. How they won the election is because the majority of them are very unified.
 
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However, rather than unofficial scab lists being passed around, why not just make it that once you cross a picket line you can no longer fly for unionized airline (after the initial strike is over)?

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Unions don't hire pilots, companies do.
 
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However, rather than unofficial scab lists being passed around, why not just make it that once you cross a picket line you can no longer fly for unionized airline (after the initial strike is over)?


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Unions don't hire pilots, companies do.

[/ QUOTE ] True, true...but unions set the criteria as to who can become a union member. If it can be verified you crossed a picket line, you can't become a union member &/or you loose you union membership. Can't it be this simple?

Thanks,

JR
 
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Unions don't hire pilots, companies do.

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Flyover, you can't violate copyright law and modify NRA slogans to use in aviation!
smile.gif
 
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..but unions set the criteria as to who can become a union member. If it can be verified you crossed a picket line, you can't become a union member &/or you loose you union membership. Can't it be this simple?

Thanks,

JR

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I don't think so. There are all kinds of legal issues that can come in when any entity tries to dictate who can be hired, maintains a blacklist, or any action like that. Even if a union could negotiate such a hiring clause (which no company would agree to) both the company and the union would be exposed legally for blacklisting.

This is why scab lists and harrassing scabs is a back alley affair. MikeD is looking for official policies on a practice that officially doesn't exist.
 
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Unions don't hire pilots, companies do.

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Flyover, you can't violate copyright law and modify NRA slogans to use in aviation!
smile.gif


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Two all-beef patties, special sauce lettuce cheese...?
 
...pickles, onions on a sesame seed roll? But that's not important right now!!
smile.gif
 
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The scab list mentioned was the official scab list for ALPA

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Which list? In 25 years in ALPA I never saw or was offered an official scab list.
 
My MEC chairman sent us a Jepp Insert that was labeled "The Official Scab list."

It is the same list as the PDF file that is published on the various websites, with the addition of two retired Comair pilots who moved aircraft during the strike. I'm not sure I agree that they should be on there, as they did not cross a picket line or fly struck revenue work.
 
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My MEC chairman sent us a Jepp Insert that was labeled "The Official Scab list."

It is the same list as the PDF file that is published on the various websites, with the addition of two retired Comair pilots who moved aircraft during the strike. I'm not sure I agree that they should be on there, as they did not cross a picket line or fly struck revenue work.

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John, if your MEC chair did that I can garantee that it was not sanctioned by ALPA national. If you were to call up Herndon and ask for a copy, they'd probaly foward you to ALPA legal and someone there would tell you about all the lawsuits they fought from Scabs trying to ban the list.

It is a list of ALPA scabs, put together privately, not by ALPA National.
 
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My MEC chairman sent us a Jepp Insert that was labeled "The Official Scab list."

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Well that would be pretty official. Is the idea to use it to deny jumpseats or encourage confrontations? Or is it just FYI?

I would say that if anything happens ref. that list ALPA would be wide open for legal action.
 
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