Speaking of Scabs...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lol. I remember back then at PHX....the UPS jet would show up, the pilots would deplane. I'd then see them walk the picket line for a bit before they got back on the plane that night to go fly. All the while, I'm at work since I'm supposed to be there, with my plane at the cargo ramp ready to take cargo, if any. Only to find out that there was none, and I could taxi back to my own ramp. That was the summary of about the last 2.5 weeks with my company. lol Least I was getting paid to do nothing but lounge in the back of my cargo plane all day and read a book.

I do wonder where I'd be now had that fork in the road never happened....

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang, were you with Scenic or Ameriflight at that point? I think I'd already left UPS at that point which is probably why I don't remember seeing you in feederville. I do remember seeing three aircraft each night turned into one which never left full.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, I flew the Scenic Chieftins and Caravans. Only guy I remember from the cargo side was a manager named Israel. This was circa '97.

Lol.......that's weird. We were working at the same area in different jobs at the same time!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Only guy I remember from the cargo side was a manager named Israel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Must have been Pacheco. He was my favorite boss, always with the big picture in mind and didn't get frazzled by things. Our station manager, who was a supreme arse, always battered the guy. Pretty pathetic.

I was a p/t UPS sup from 9/94 until maybe 5/97, at which point I'd had enough of the • of the PHX airport op. Seems that you could get in as a sup, but if you ever wanted f/t with the company, you'd only be able to dream about it. That's why I quit and went f/t at my other job (supervisor for BAX).

Indeed ... so close, yet so far. Crazy world, eh?
 
[ QUOTE ]

Good question. I doubt they publish SS#s to match the names to. I just don't want it to degenerate into a TSA-like name mix-up.

[/ QUOTE ]

The copy that I happened to run across once upon a time had a smattering of SSN numbers.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Good question. I doubt they publish SS#s to match the names to. I just don't want it to degenerate into a TSA-like name mix-up.

[/ QUOTE ]

The copy that I happened to run across once upon a time had a smattering of SSN numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they have DOB.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I should point out that I think people that directly go against all their union's have struggled for should be drug out into a field and shot.

Before you people start thinking I'M a scab.

And don't see yourself out of this thread. That's kinda boring. Come on. Tell me why this flight info type c#$p should show up here where personal opinion and discussion typically prevails unless gulfstream, MAPD, or any other miniscule success of Frank Lorenzo comes up.

Flame away...at least I have an opinion that I can back up.
bandit.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
I stand by my previous statements..........You're still a tool Tallboy!
grin.gif
Get a life, you wanker.
shocked.gif
laugh.gif
Oh, and sorry Mike, I couldn't resist.
banghead.gif
insane.gif
cool.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Talk about Kool-Aid drinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever you say, Mike.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well what would you call it, then? Did you, in fact, read any of what I wrote regards the some scabs beng "good scabs" while others are "bad scabs"?

How does that work? I mean, you're the one at the airline and in the union, I'm the outsider. Educate me.

IMO, it smells of hypocrisy, just no one wants to come out and say it.
 
Well, imagine a big game of "stare down" where management sits on one side of the table and labor sits on the other side of the table.

Both sides have a mutual interest for the game to succeed, but management wants low costs and labor wants wages at least consistent with their efforts.

Both sides eyes are drying rapidly and the tension rises.

Then some 'scab' bounds up, delicately sprays management's eyes with some soothing viseine and does nothing more than extends the game.

Aiding and abetting, and all that.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well, imagine a big game of "stare down" where management sits on one side of the table and labor sits on the other side of the table.

Both sides have a mutual interest for the game to succeed, but management wants low costs and labor wants wages at least consistent with their efforts.

Both sides eyes are drying rapidly and the tension rises.

Then some 'scab' bounds up, delicately sprays management's eyes with some soothing viseine and does nothing more than extends the game.

Aiding and abetting, and all that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised CAL hasn't imploded from the good scab/bad scab thing.

Are these "reformed scabs" or ones that are "back in good standing" not on the list? I mean, they still scabbed. What is the reform process, or is it "reform in name only"?
grin.gif
 
This is just third hand 'gossip' of sorts but I've heard that there's still a clear division between the scabs and the pilots at CAL. I can't confirm or deny beyond listening to jumpseaters talk about commuting long distances to avoid 'being at a kool aid scab base' but that was just a couple of guys in the early 2000's.

From my own selfish perspective, the big ALPA push reinvigorated after Leo Mullin attempted to purchase Continental back in 1998 and a lot of the CAL pilots thought "Holy cow! We don't have merger and fragmentation protections!" so they lobbied for re-entry back into ALPA just in case Leo was successful merging with CAL, that they wouldn't get screwed TWA-style, Reno Air-style or the famous "Red Book"/"Blue Book"-style (NWA).

In terms of what the membership status of the CAL scabs are, I really couldn't tell you. I do know one threw his wife into a wood chipper down in Texas years ago and made big headlines!

That's about all I know. Hell, I don't even really know for certain if any of the above is true, but it's just what I've heard over the years.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Well what would you call it, then? Did you, in fact, read any of what I wrote regards the some scabs beng "good scabs" while others are "bad scabs"?

How does that work? I mean, you're the one at the airline and in the union, I'm the outsider. Educate me.

IMO, it smells of hypocrisy, just no one wants to come out and say it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't know how one goes about getting magically removed from that list once they've crossed a picket line. Wish I did. It doesn't make sense to me either.

Being at an airline and in a union doesn't make me any expert on it...I'm quite the opposite. I see it fairly clear cut, while in reality its probably more of a gray area than I realize. Who knows.

A guy I used to work with had pretty in-depth knowledge of the CAL scab situation (he was furloughed CAL, now recalled). He explained some of it to me, but I didn't retain too much.

Anyways, didn't mean to snap back at you...I took a little offense to the Kool-Aid comment because I'm trying my best to avoid just that.
 
Hello Doug,

Can't you just get a "no scabbing" clause in the new contract? (Yeah, I'm a simpleton). From my point of view, at least, all unions ought to stick together and all contracts oughts to cover all bases (points).

Thanks,

JR
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well what would you call it, then? Did you, in fact, read any of what I wrote regards the some scabs beng "good scabs" while others are "bad scabs"?

How does that work? I mean, you're the one at the airline and in the union, I'm the outsider. Educate me.

IMO, it smells of hypocrisy, just no one wants to come out and say it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't know how one goes about getting magically removed from that list once they've crossed a picket line. Wish I did. It doesn't make sense to me either.

Being at an airline and in a union doesn't make me any expert on it...I'm quite the opposite. I see it fairly clear cut, while in reality its probably more of a gray area than I realize. Who knows.

A guy I used to work with had pretty in-depth knowledge of the CAL scab situation (he was furloughed CAL, now recalled). He explained some of it to me, but I didn't retain too much.

Anyways, didn't mean to snap back at you...I took a little offense to the Kool-Aid comment because I'm trying my best to avoid just that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you mean, partner. And allow me to explain my position a little bit better, since I was unclear. For one, I support the union concept as a necessary protection against uncaring management. That being said, each and every airline guy I've talked to seemingly refrains from ever criticizing the union when it might be due....like there's some fear of being labled "traitor" or something if they say anything critical. I mean, lets call a spade a spade when necessary. If ALPA, as a union, is anti-scab (and rightfully so), I've got to wonder why it is that they'd allow certain scabs to be "reformed" and hold union positions, such as it is with the CAL situation. That's just my inquiring mind wanting to know. I very much respect that you admit you don't know why it is, ESF; heck, I don't know why it is! I wish I did, especially as an outsider looking in. What's to say that this won't happen again with, say, United or someone else regards two "classes" of scabs? Again, having the union is good, don't get me wrong. I just wonder why there's seemingly a "see no evil, hear no evil" thought process regarding some of the ways they operate.

BTW....hope the ATR gig is going good. I always liked the -72, since it was, in my day of "coming up the ranks", the king of regional planes before all this RJ stuff started making it's appearance. I still it's one of the coolest out there.
 
Being from the South, and being part of "management" in a non-aviation company in Philly, I truly have a strong distaste for unions. I know they have served good purpose in the past, and serve good purpose now in some situations. What really gets my blood boiling are the thug tactics to manipulate non-members, or even members to do what they ask.

I am sorry, but attacking people physically or with lists such as this is morally reprehensible.

I am not familliar with the aviation unions, and it may be the case that they are not as morally bankrupt as the other labor unions such as the Teamsters. But my experience with unions has been far from pleasant in the past, and I will consider the day I join a union the day that I have compromised my principles.

If the aviation unions are truly different, then I am willing to review my position.

Grayson
 
Come on JonnyB I had to wait more than 12 hours to feel like a retard because of you. You're the wanker you $&^@. I'm not even going to dignify that with a smiley face.

This is a great thread...I'm glad to see there's a very mellow feeling regarding the animosity directed towards pilots who intentionally crossed the picket lines, and I'm glad there's not more animosity towards those who dared to stand up to their union and say enough is enough you guys aren't doing the job we wanted you to do. But I am glad that the animosity is there. With "free" scabbing, the system would fall apart and airlines like Comair would have gotten NOTHING accomplished for us "small jet" flyers.

It's very easy to become a part of ALPA and I'm glad that through the pizza and cokes I got while I listend to our ALPA reps give their little powerpoint presentation I became part of a very well organized and supportive union. And while I still may sit in a giant pile of dung as far as airlines are concerned (that's what YOU think...NOT me) I know that I'm an ALPA member entitled to certain priviledges.

Thank you MikeD for your statement that this is a slanderous list. Who's to say if its even correct and how would we feel if we wrongfully ended up on it? Lets just hope the keeper of this list is conservative enough to have multiple sources of data to back up his list, even though his actions are overly aggressive.

As for an anti-scabber clause in a contract, I'm sure there would be if there wasn't some law against it. The union laws are probably many times thicker than the FARs. But the bottom line is pretty simple. You're in a union for a reason, either get involved or go with the flow because there are no other options that I've seen unless you're put on "a list". I know people know the "a list" I'm talking about.

I'm not even that much of a wanker...frickin Foxtrot named airline.
bandit.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
BTW....hope the ATR gig is going good. I always liked the -72, since it was, in my day of "coming up the ranks", the king of regional planes before all this RJ stuff started making it's appearance. I still it's one of the coolest out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its going great...class and CPT is all done, just have my oral on Tuesday, and then more sims and the checkride. Its quite a beast of a plane. Big, decently automated (not compared to a -117, but you know...
wink.gif
), very quiet, and gets in and out of short runways nicely. Roomier inside than the CRJ700 and holds 66 pax. The -212A, which I'll be flying most now that I'm MIA-based, has a MTOW of just shy of 50,000 lbs.

[/thread hijack]
 
[ QUOTE ]
Being from the South, and being part of "management" in a non-aviation company in Philly, I truly have a strong distaste for unions. I know they have served good purpose in the past, and serve good purpose now in some situations. What really gets my blood boiling are the thug tactics to manipulate non-members, or even members to do what they ask.

I am sorry, but attacking people physically or with lists such as this is morally reprehensible.

I am not familliar with the aviation unions, and it may be the case that they are not as morally bankrupt as the other labor unions such as the Teamsters. But my experience with unions has been far from pleasant in the past, and I will consider the day I join a union the day that I have compromised my principles.

If the aviation unions are truly different, then I am willing to review my position.

Grayson

[/ QUOTE ]

I think unions are necessary, but I don't agree with all their tactics. I think management is necessary, but I don't agree with all their tactics either. Bottom line in what I'm trying to do with this thread is separate the wheat from the chaff...because in-between the BS from both sides, union and management, lies the truth.

I disagree with union thug tactics and the "vote our way or we break your knees and burn down your house" mentality; just as much as I disagree with the "we need more wage concessions from you guys because we need to maintain our 6-figure salaries as management.....the 40% you've given already isn't cutting it" mentality.

We can talk management BS in another thread, or even later in this one. But the scope of this thread is how does one support their union's overall objectives, while still being able to call BS on stuff that is BS?

And it is an interesting question, objectively speaking, of who creates/maintains/updates said scab list? What is the realistic accuracy of it? Is it possible that there are people on it that shouldn't have been put on or were unfairly put on? At the same time, are there people that aren't on it that should be? How does the good scab/bad scab deal work? Is it a matter of conveniance? Can a "bad scab" lobby or make his case to be status-changed to a "scab in good standing"? Are there any bylaws covering this?

Again, I'm just an outsider trying to use some critical thinking, and take an objective look at why certain things are the way they are. Separate the truth from hypocrisy; and turn away free Kool-Aid offerings, so to speak, from both management as well as the union.

Anyone wanting to help in this investigation, hop on board.......
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Being from the South, and being part of "management" in a non-aviation company in Philly, I truly have a strong distaste for unions. I know they have served good purpose in the past, and serve good purpose now in some situations. What really gets my blood boiling are the thug tactics to manipulate non-members, or even members to do what they ask.

I am sorry, but attacking people physically or with lists such as this is morally reprehensible.

I am not familliar with the aviation unions, and it may be the case that they are not as morally bankrupt as the other labor unions such as the Teamsters. But my experience with unions has been far from pleasant in the past, and I will consider the day I join a union the day that I have compromised my principles.

If the aviation unions are truly different, then I am willing to review my position.

Grayson

[/ QUOTE ]

I think unions are necessary, but I don't agree with all their tactics. I think management is necessary, but I don't agree with all their tactics either. Bottom line in what I'm trying to do with this thread is separate the wheat from the chaff...because in-between the BS from both sides, union and management, lies the truth.

I disagree with union thug tactics and the "vote our way or we break your knees and burn down your house" mentality; just as much as I disagree with the "we need more wage concessions from you guys because we need to maintain our 6-figure salaries as management.....the 40% you've given already isn't cutting it" mentality.

We can talk management BS in another thread, or even later in this one. But the scope of this thread is how does one support their union's overall objectives, while still being able to call BS on stuff that is BS?

And it is an interesting question, objectively speaking, of who creates/maintains/updates said scab list? What is the realistic accuracy of it? Is it possible that there are people on it that shouldn't have been put on or were unfairly put on? At the same time, are there people that aren't on it that should be? How does the good scab/bad scab deal work? Is it a matter of conveniance? Can a "bad scab" lobby or make his case to be status-changed to a "scab in good standing"? Are there any bylaws covering this?

Again, I'm just an outsider trying to use some critical thinking, and take an objective look at why certain things are the way they are. Separate the truth from hypocrisy; and turn away free Kool-Aid offerings, so to speak, from both management as well as the union.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think the posting of this list is a lot like everyone who posts links to articles on newspaper websites. We all know that reporters don't know SQUAT about aviation.

If you read a newspaper today, someone is always being arrested for something. I know the papers usually say they alledgely did the crime, but EVERYONE still thinks they are guilty, even though they aren't (i.e. Kobe, and many many others). Look at all the negative press about that, but he didn't even go to trial. But people still think he is a rapist.

I don't think it was wrong to post the link, otherwise JetCareers shouldn't allow all other links. Who knows if those are true, but we don't seem to have a problem posting those.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top