Space Shuttle Piggy-Back Question

... how much extra weight does the shuttle impose on the 747 given that it would produce it's own lift during flight, utilizing the 747's thrust?

I cannot find it right now, but I believe that it is below the MTOGW of a standard passenger carrying 747, even with the orbiter on the back. It also has to fly VMC.

"the planes still weigh more than 250,000 pounds, and the drag created by the shape and weight of the orbiter -- 176,000 pounds or more, depending on any onboard payload -- negates the small amount of lift it adds." (emphasis added by me) http://www.nasa.gov/returntoflight/crew/ferryflight.html

Performance
  • Airspeed limits with, and without an orbiter: 250 knots or Mach 0.6
  • Altitude: Typical cruise with orbiter, 13,000-15,000 ft; typical cruise unmated, 24,000-26,000 ft. Minimum temperature at altitude 15 degrees (F) (-9 degrees C)
  • Range: Typical mated, 1000 nautical miles (with reserves); maximum unmated, 5500 nautical miles
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-013-DFRC.html
 
So wouldn't that constitute going to a higher altitude than 18k? Isn't there less chance of clouds at higher altitudes - not counting convective activity of course; they will devert around those either way.
 
The procedure in the event of an engine failure on the 747 is to jettison the space shuttle to ensure the safe landing of the 747.
 
So wouldn't that constitute going to a higher altitude than 18k? Isn't there less chance of clouds at higher altitudes - not counting convective activity of course; they will devert around those either way.
Actually the limitation on altitude is actually a limit on minimum OAT, which is -9C. This is due to certain fluids in certain systems on the orbiter.
 
The procedure in the event of an engine failure on the 747 is to jettison the space shuttle to ensure the safe landing of the 747.

I don't believe that one. First of all loss of one engine on a 747 is pretty much a non-event except on takeoff. And there would be no jettisoning the space shuttle at that point.
 
I am actually curious on that point. I have a friend who works at Johnson Space Flight Center, I'll shoot her an email-see if she can do some investigating :-)

That would be one EXPENSIVE engine failure if they had to jettison the shuttle.
 
I don't believe that one. First of all loss of one engine on a 747 is pretty much a non-event except on takeoff. And there would be no jettisoning the space shuttle at that point.


Yeah, and without someone piloting the shuttle, there's no telling where it would go after it was jettisoned.
 
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The Russians where great a making things simple. Must of been much cheaper to slap on a few jet engines laying around.

Kind of like when we spent millions of dollars developing a Space pen, the Russians just used pencils.
 
I would think they would have an astronaut ride in the cockpit of the shuttle in case of an engine failure/jettison. Lord knows they have enough of them sitting around not doing anything.
 
There is absolutely no way the orbiter would be jettisoned from the 747, that is completely senseless. If the 747 has enough power to takeoff w/orbiter, it should easily maintain altitude on 2 engines, much less 3, just like any plane can fly perfectly well on 50% of takeoff power once aloft. Single engine loss of takeoff is also not likely to cause an issue, as it only operates from the longest runways; loss of two would probably end badly, though. I'm sorry but these things should be common sense for pilots.

Also, to answer some earlier questions, the max L/D of the orbiter is about 2, and the outer glideslope is 18°-20° depending on weight; typically flown at 300 KEAS and a transition to a 3° inner GS is started around 3000 ft AGL with touchdown around 190-210 KEAS. Empty orbiter is about 175,000 lbs, which I think is much less than useful load on a 747; of course it adds a ton of drag so the range is low probably because they can't carry much fuel and the engines are not efficient at low altitude.

Also, someone asked wether the orbiter could take off under its own power; well the original design had it with air-breathing engines that would be used after entry and for self-ferry flights, however the added weight of engines and jet fuel ruled that out because it really ate into the payload. Also it originally was supposed to have been and even poorer glider (just a lifting body) but the DOD required that it have 1000 nmi crossrange (gliding) capability from orbit so that meant it had to have big, heavy wings, which made everything bigger and less efficient. Then the DOD only used it a couple times and NASA was stuck with it the way it was.
 
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