Southwest Pilot Needs?????
- Thread starter ERJ-135
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
Doug- just off the topic- have you ever been banged by the canoes or flaps of those MD-90's? The wing is so low to the ground and there is so much crap under that wing that i might lose my head one of these days! Preflight could be very dangerous at night under the wing-they are really Mad Dogs!
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Actually no. I mostly walk around the perimeter of the wing so I don't get that close. It's way too low to try to walk under without hunching down.
But I do leave a lot of skin on the overhead panel... ouch!
Doug- just off the topic- have you ever been banged by the canoes or flaps of those MD-90's? The wing is so low to the ground and there is so much crap under that wing that i might lose my head one of these days! Preflight could be very dangerous at night under the wing-they are really Mad Dogs!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually no. I mostly walk around the perimeter of the wing so I don't get that close. It's way too low to try to walk under without hunching down.
But I do leave a lot of skin on the overhead panel... ouch!
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question: Say you get the 737 type rating and interview with SWA. Say, then that you are hired. Can you write off a portion of that expense as having a 737 Type Rating is a condition for employement with SWA??
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I think the best you can do is write off the cost of a 737 type rating on your taxes. The company I work for offers 737 type ratings as well.
Here's a question: Say you get the 737 type rating and interview with SWA. Say, then that you are hired. Can you write off a portion of that expense as having a 737 Type Rating is a condition for employement with SWA??
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I think the best you can do is write off the cost of a 737 type rating on your taxes. The company I work for offers 737 type ratings as well.
G
Guest
Guest
Actually, I am pretty sure you can't write off the type rating, even if it is a prereq. for emplyment at SWA (I should actually know this). However, if your self employed and were getting typed to instruct, then you could write it off. That's my understanding, probably wrong.
sigmanu499
New Member
When I was saying two trips per month I was refering to that 747 Capt. When I was working as a line boy at my local airport there was a UAL 747 Capt that flew LAX-Sydney, Australia he was saying that they fly only two trips a month, in most months. I know that when you are flying MD-80s, 737, 757 and the like, its alot of trips. Anyways even if you do fly alot of trips thats really good money!!! and to get paid like that to fly is great.
The only guys that I know that might do two trips per month are guys that are doing some of the 777 six day trips.
Now this is just 777 European Ops so I'm more than sure flying ultra-long haul Pacific Ops is even longer, but here's a trip from the 777 bid package:
Day Flight Depart Arrives Block
A 022 ATL 1745 CDG 0815 8.30
C 043 CDG 1015 CVG 1310 8.55
D 044 CVG 1855 CDG 0850 7.55
F 029 CDG 1155 ATL 1520 7.55
Total Pay: 34.45 hours
Time Away From Base: 119.35 hours
Six days at work, 34 3/4 hours of pay, 119:35 away from home (per diem only)
I'd hate to see some of the ultra-long haul UAL 747 trips! Ack!
Now this is just 777 European Ops so I'm more than sure flying ultra-long haul Pacific Ops is even longer, but here's a trip from the 777 bid package:
Day Flight Depart Arrives Block
A 022 ATL 1745 CDG 0815 8.30
C 043 CDG 1015 CVG 1310 8.55
D 044 CVG 1855 CDG 0850 7.55
F 029 CDG 1155 ATL 1520 7.55
Total Pay: 34.45 hours
Time Away From Base: 119.35 hours
Six days at work, 34 3/4 hours of pay, 119:35 away from home (per diem only)
I'd hate to see some of the ultra-long haul UAL 747 trips! Ack!
A320_DUDE
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You guys can fly for LCC's... I'll be over at Delta or AA. Flying 737's 8 hours a day, for 30 years Austin to Amarillo doesn't excite me.
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Hey Hey Hey......its more like Baltimore-Birmingham-Houston-Austin-Amarillo!
Truthfully the "LCC" life style is not for everyone,just as he "major airline" lifestyle is also not for everyone,but I've added a little (okay it's long!) post off a flightinfo thread that I think is a good example of the pilot lifestyle at SWA.
[ QUOTE ]
For advice on how to consider the question, I really have to recommend Tred's thoughts above as some of the best I've seen... "the right decision" doesn't exist, so much as "the right decision for me." I'll offer a couple of random thoughts off the top of my head.
First, your schedule will change dramatically. From 2 trips a month, to four or five -- yes, you can sit 5 three day reserve blocks at first. Probably not close to home (unless you live near Oakland). What your commute will look like, only you know that. How long until you get based close to home, depends on how rapidly hiring happens after your class, and what base you live close to (again, if you live near OAK, no worries). But the days of two 6-day trips in a month are gone forever... almost all our 3-day trips fly over 15 hours (i.e. you can't put 2 of them back-to back), and after most of the 4-day trips, you're close enough to 30-in-7 that you can't fly much else. Best case, you can do three 4-day trips in a month... but those are highly prized (especially the weekday trips), so they aren't something you can count on for a while. More likely case, 4 trips in a month, some 3 days and some 4 days. We have several ways to trade trips, and while you can frequently trade into any ONE thing you want (pay, or most weekends off, or a particular overnight near home, or shorter or fewer trips, etc), it's hard to get *everything* you want -- especially at first!
For the most part, the crews at SWA are great. Somebody on another thread made a remark a while back about "yeah, but *I* don't have to suffer thru Midland overnights!" I didn't call him on it then, but you can actually have some tremendous fun with your crew on the overnights in the smaller towns, partly because the crews are more likely to hang out together. While every place has their "bottom 10%," the 90% at SWA are some outstanding people (and I definitely include our F/A's in that as well); you can really enjoy the overnights. Some are short (11-12 hours), a few are really long (16-18 hours+), most are in between. Decent hotels.
Pay... well, if you're looking at 6 figures now, it's gonna go down for a while... quite a ways down. If you're close to your base so you can pick up extra flying without demolishing your home life, you can make a good bit more than you would otherwise, but it takes flexibility & work. Here's the typical gig: bid weekend reserve & show a "pass" preference (instead of a "fly" preference). Then, as soon as your reserve block ends, try to pick up extra flying. Anything you pick up from the company (i.e. not a giveaway from another pilot, but from the open time bank) during the first year pays at 2nd year rates. For reserve blocks in the future, the computer will assume something like 6 hours per day for checking legality for what you pick up (i.e. you can't pick up to the point that you're unusable during your reserve block), but for reserve you've already sat, what you actually flew is all that counts. Some guys can get paid quite a bit this way, and those who do this can tell you all the good tricks of the trade. Like I said, tho, if you don't live in domicile, it'll be hard to do that & have a life at home.
Trip drops for military flying: couldn't be simpler or easier. The chief pilots that I've dealt with have all been 110% accommodating for reserve duty. You put the dates you're away from base for reserve duty on a form, and at the appropriate time everything that conflicts with those dates goes away, and there's a code on your screen in the computer so you can't get called for JA (i.e. drafted to fly an uncovered trip) during that time either. No questions, no hassel, no negative "vibes."
Chief pilots: all the ones I've dealt with have been excellent. While you hear the "horror stories" from time to time, every interaction I've had with them has been positive. They all came from the line, and when they're done as chief pilots, most of them go back to the line -- they're "pilots like us." Even on probation, I felt like they treated me with respect as an experienced aviator & a part of the team.
Same experience with the check airmen -- great guys to fly with. Of the check airmen I've flown with, every one of them would easily be in the top third of the pilots I've flown with. If I had an option to fly with Captain X or Captain Y, and the only thing I knew about either was that one was a check airman, he's the one I'd want to fly with. The ones I've seen (which has been a fair number) have all been good guys, big picture, and easy to fly & get along with.
Union stuff: I don't have a basis to make a firsthand comparison with other airlines, but one big reason I came to SWA was because I hated the thought of the acrimonious confrontations at AA, UAL, and other places. Generally, I haven't been disapointed. From what I've seen, SWAPA does a good job standing up for guys who need the protection, and generally has a pretty good working relationship with the company. It's not perfect, but it is pretty good -- not overly adversarial over pointless things, for instance. (This has improved recently over the situation a while ago -- more professional, less confrontational, imho.)
Other change for you: you'll fly the airplane... a lot! In Texas (if you're based in HOU or DAL), you can get up to 8 legs in a -200 in a day. Yeah, that's a LOT of flying, but it goes surprisingly quick, and the -200 is a good jet to hand-fly, and it lands sweet! Everywhere else, 5 or 6 legs is about the max you'll do (and not in -200's, since they're only flown by DAL & HOU crews now). But that's still quite a bit. No autothrottles, and you can see the VNAV info but can't couple the autopilot to it. Hand-flying the jet is encouraged during climbout & approach -- especially the visual approaches. There is a real emphasis on flying the jet efficiently, i.e. minimizing "drone" time configured & level with high thrust. You're always configured by 1000' agl, but on a visual approach you may not set your last notch of flaps until about 1050' agl! It takes some getting used to, but it's a fun challenge to pull the power to idle as you descend out of cruise, get cleared the visual 20 miles out, and not touch the thrust levers again until you spool the engines just prior to 500' agl, on speed & on glidepath. If you can successfully do that 3 times in a day of flying, you're doing pretty good & you'll know it!
"The grass is always greener..." There have been a few guys who left SWA in the few years prior to 9/11 for UAL, Delta, American, etc, and I don't know how many (if any) have come back to SWA (though I do know that several tried to). While you'll never make $300k here flying a 777 international, it's a really good place to be, and I think that the majority of guys here do NOT look "over the fence" & long for what "the other guys" have. Now especially, but even before 9/11, most people at SWA were pretty happy with where they were & the way things were. There are always things that could be better (pay being one of them -- perpetually for everybody, and us being no exception), but to the extent that there are real "better" and "worse" places to be, for a lot of people SWA truly is an improvement over where they are, not just a vain "grass is always greener" sort of thing.
So, if you're okay with the pay cut for a few years & starting over at the "bottom of the totem pole" for a while (with all its attendant "perks" -- last choice at monthly schedule, base, vacation, etc), and can be happy with the sorts of flying we do (not every day is 6 legs -- not by a long shot, but you'll certainly see plenty of them), then you can confidently look forward to a good time when you come to SWA. While it isn't for everybody, it is right for a lot of people.
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys can fly for LCC's... I'll be over at Delta or AA. Flying 737's 8 hours a day, for 30 years Austin to Amarillo doesn't excite me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Hey Hey......its more like Baltimore-Birmingham-Houston-Austin-Amarillo!
Truthfully the "LCC" life style is not for everyone,just as he "major airline" lifestyle is also not for everyone,but I've added a little (okay it's long!) post off a flightinfo thread that I think is a good example of the pilot lifestyle at SWA.
[ QUOTE ]
For advice on how to consider the question, I really have to recommend Tred's thoughts above as some of the best I've seen... "the right decision" doesn't exist, so much as "the right decision for me." I'll offer a couple of random thoughts off the top of my head.
First, your schedule will change dramatically. From 2 trips a month, to four or five -- yes, you can sit 5 three day reserve blocks at first. Probably not close to home (unless you live near Oakland). What your commute will look like, only you know that. How long until you get based close to home, depends on how rapidly hiring happens after your class, and what base you live close to (again, if you live near OAK, no worries). But the days of two 6-day trips in a month are gone forever... almost all our 3-day trips fly over 15 hours (i.e. you can't put 2 of them back-to back), and after most of the 4-day trips, you're close enough to 30-in-7 that you can't fly much else. Best case, you can do three 4-day trips in a month... but those are highly prized (especially the weekday trips), so they aren't something you can count on for a while. More likely case, 4 trips in a month, some 3 days and some 4 days. We have several ways to trade trips, and while you can frequently trade into any ONE thing you want (pay, or most weekends off, or a particular overnight near home, or shorter or fewer trips, etc), it's hard to get *everything* you want -- especially at first!
For the most part, the crews at SWA are great. Somebody on another thread made a remark a while back about "yeah, but *I* don't have to suffer thru Midland overnights!" I didn't call him on it then, but you can actually have some tremendous fun with your crew on the overnights in the smaller towns, partly because the crews are more likely to hang out together. While every place has their "bottom 10%," the 90% at SWA are some outstanding people (and I definitely include our F/A's in that as well); you can really enjoy the overnights. Some are short (11-12 hours), a few are really long (16-18 hours+), most are in between. Decent hotels.
Pay... well, if you're looking at 6 figures now, it's gonna go down for a while... quite a ways down. If you're close to your base so you can pick up extra flying without demolishing your home life, you can make a good bit more than you would otherwise, but it takes flexibility & work. Here's the typical gig: bid weekend reserve & show a "pass" preference (instead of a "fly" preference). Then, as soon as your reserve block ends, try to pick up extra flying. Anything you pick up from the company (i.e. not a giveaway from another pilot, but from the open time bank) during the first year pays at 2nd year rates. For reserve blocks in the future, the computer will assume something like 6 hours per day for checking legality for what you pick up (i.e. you can't pick up to the point that you're unusable during your reserve block), but for reserve you've already sat, what you actually flew is all that counts. Some guys can get paid quite a bit this way, and those who do this can tell you all the good tricks of the trade. Like I said, tho, if you don't live in domicile, it'll be hard to do that & have a life at home.
Trip drops for military flying: couldn't be simpler or easier. The chief pilots that I've dealt with have all been 110% accommodating for reserve duty. You put the dates you're away from base for reserve duty on a form, and at the appropriate time everything that conflicts with those dates goes away, and there's a code on your screen in the computer so you can't get called for JA (i.e. drafted to fly an uncovered trip) during that time either. No questions, no hassel, no negative "vibes."
Chief pilots: all the ones I've dealt with have been excellent. While you hear the "horror stories" from time to time, every interaction I've had with them has been positive. They all came from the line, and when they're done as chief pilots, most of them go back to the line -- they're "pilots like us." Even on probation, I felt like they treated me with respect as an experienced aviator & a part of the team.
Same experience with the check airmen -- great guys to fly with. Of the check airmen I've flown with, every one of them would easily be in the top third of the pilots I've flown with. If I had an option to fly with Captain X or Captain Y, and the only thing I knew about either was that one was a check airman, he's the one I'd want to fly with. The ones I've seen (which has been a fair number) have all been good guys, big picture, and easy to fly & get along with.
Union stuff: I don't have a basis to make a firsthand comparison with other airlines, but one big reason I came to SWA was because I hated the thought of the acrimonious confrontations at AA, UAL, and other places. Generally, I haven't been disapointed. From what I've seen, SWAPA does a good job standing up for guys who need the protection, and generally has a pretty good working relationship with the company. It's not perfect, but it is pretty good -- not overly adversarial over pointless things, for instance. (This has improved recently over the situation a while ago -- more professional, less confrontational, imho.)
Other change for you: you'll fly the airplane... a lot! In Texas (if you're based in HOU or DAL), you can get up to 8 legs in a -200 in a day. Yeah, that's a LOT of flying, but it goes surprisingly quick, and the -200 is a good jet to hand-fly, and it lands sweet! Everywhere else, 5 or 6 legs is about the max you'll do (and not in -200's, since they're only flown by DAL & HOU crews now). But that's still quite a bit. No autothrottles, and you can see the VNAV info but can't couple the autopilot to it. Hand-flying the jet is encouraged during climbout & approach -- especially the visual approaches. There is a real emphasis on flying the jet efficiently, i.e. minimizing "drone" time configured & level with high thrust. You're always configured by 1000' agl, but on a visual approach you may not set your last notch of flaps until about 1050' agl! It takes some getting used to, but it's a fun challenge to pull the power to idle as you descend out of cruise, get cleared the visual 20 miles out, and not touch the thrust levers again until you spool the engines just prior to 500' agl, on speed & on glidepath. If you can successfully do that 3 times in a day of flying, you're doing pretty good & you'll know it!
"The grass is always greener..." There have been a few guys who left SWA in the few years prior to 9/11 for UAL, Delta, American, etc, and I don't know how many (if any) have come back to SWA (though I do know that several tried to). While you'll never make $300k here flying a 777 international, it's a really good place to be, and I think that the majority of guys here do NOT look "over the fence" & long for what "the other guys" have. Now especially, but even before 9/11, most people at SWA were pretty happy with where they were & the way things were. There are always things that could be better (pay being one of them -- perpetually for everybody, and us being no exception), but to the extent that there are real "better" and "worse" places to be, for a lot of people SWA truly is an improvement over where they are, not just a vain "grass is always greener" sort of thing.
So, if you're okay with the pay cut for a few years & starting over at the "bottom of the totem pole" for a while (with all its attendant "perks" -- last choice at monthly schedule, base, vacation, etc), and can be happy with the sorts of flying we do (not every day is 6 legs -- not by a long shot, but you'll certainly see plenty of them), then you can confidently look forward to a good time when you come to SWA. While it isn't for everybody, it is right for a lot of people.
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Snow
'Not a new member'
[ QUOTE ]
I'd hate to see some of the ultra-long haul UAL 747 trips! Ack!
[/ QUOTE ]
Tell me about it, I've done the LAX - SYD trip about 11 times I think, that's like getting close to 200hrs
Well I've heard of a UPS 747 Captian that is away for a week and then has the rest of the month off.
Still debating weither to fly United or not, think it's too risky to book tickets 3 months in advance? I'd really like to fly on a United 747 again, possibly for the last time, who knows. Although for $100 less I can fly JAL and get a free overnight stop in Japan, very tempting!
I'd hate to see some of the ultra-long haul UAL 747 trips! Ack!
[/ QUOTE ]
Tell me about it, I've done the LAX - SYD trip about 11 times I think, that's like getting close to 200hrs
Well I've heard of a UPS 747 Captian that is away for a week and then has the rest of the month off.
Still debating weither to fly United or not, think it's too risky to book tickets 3 months in advance? I'd really like to fly on a United 747 again, possibly for the last time, who knows. Although for $100 less I can fly JAL and get a free overnight stop in Japan, very tempting!
A320_DUDE
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Still debating weither to fly United or not, think it's too risky to book tickets 3 months in advance? I'd really like to fly on a United 747 again, possibly for the last time, who knows. Although for $100 less I can fly JAL and get a free overnight stop in Japan, very tempting!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say take the free overnight in Japan.....at least you can count on JAL getting you back home. Sure United has been a strong performer operationally wise,but so was Pan Am the last couple of months they were around.
Still debating weither to fly United or not, think it's too risky to book tickets 3 months in advance? I'd really like to fly on a United 747 again, possibly for the last time, who knows. Although for $100 less I can fly JAL and get a free overnight stop in Japan, very tempting!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say take the free overnight in Japan.....at least you can count on JAL getting you back home. Sure United has been a strong performer operationally wise,but so was Pan Am the last couple of months they were around.
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