Soul searching

I almost got into a verbal wrasslin' match with an APD during my 727 FE oral about fire protection.

"What's a loop light mean?"

"Fault or fire, sir!"

"No. You're wrong. Dead wrong"

*Ah'roo?* (Scooby Doo)

Turns out that I was absolutely 100% correct, my ground school instructor and the chief flight instructor wanted me to press the issue (in my favor) but I thought, "Hmm, I'm on probation, I passed, last thing I need to do is be a tool in some APD's explusion from the training department".

There really aren't a heavy abundance of jobs available so I'd kind of suggest along with the systems/limitations "dump" you do after training, go ahead and do an 'rotten experience' dump and keep trucking.

If you find something more attractive in the future, jump on it, but I certainly wouldn't suggest cruising because of one bad experience.

Morale at most passenger airlines is rock bottom. Gotta love that $55/barrel oil!
 
ESF,

My plane's a/p does the same thing regards MDAs. For all it's other automation, it can't "see" that it's approaching an MDA and compare that with it's current rate of descent, so nearing end game, it begins to lead the level off as it normally would and ends up going about 20' below. We just end up inputting the MDAs 100' higher than they're written, then when the jet levels off at that altitude, re-input it 100' lower to the actual MDA, to where the a/p will "milk it down" to that MDA and not go below. Don't know if you guys are allowed to do this or not, but it's the gouge we use to manage the a/p.
 
When we were doing the 'dive and drive'-style non-precision approaches, we had to 'double punch'. Within like 50 feet of MDA, we'd hit the altitude hold button. As the plane starts to level, we'd hit the altitude hold button again and it would usually level at MDA correctly.
 
You just spent 6 weeks in DFW and you want to quit?!

Stick it out!

My first supervisor (at Eagle) and I didn't get off on the right foot, so to speak. She had an attitude about the 'young' new-hires, and basically treated anyone who hadn't either been at the company for at least 2 years, or was over the age of 25 like garbage. In my two years with her as my sup, I got written up for having my shirt unbuttoned too low (despite that I was wearing the uniform within published company guidlines) and I got written up for showing too much cleavage with the old double-breasted coat dress (again, I was wearing the uniform as outlined in the regs). When she was removed from her position as supervisor and was sent back to the line, she didn't have many friends left. It was rather amusing to read my personel file 7 years later and get a good laugh over those bogus write-ups, but it sure wasn't funny at the time.

Remember what I said about the 'company crap' you're going to have to deal with? Looks like you just got your first bite of it. Don't let it make you quit. Not yet. Give it some time, get used to life there, settle in a bit.
 
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Excuse my ignorance but what is an 'unsat'?

One who will be making my way up the ladder wants to know.
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Thank you!

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Unsatisfactory. Not only reserved for checkrides, but all training events. Since we have a three strikes policy, one more of these and I'm out on my ass with an oh-so-lovely story to have to tell future interviewers. I just don't know how things have gone so wrong. I never would have thought in a million years I'd have such a rough time. I was worried about the ground school more than the flying, yet I did great in ground school. I've never failed any kind of checkride (still haven't but that doesn't matter), or even a training event from the time I was a student until now. Its like they're trying to get rid of me.
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How long does that stay on your record? Through probation? IOE? When does it reset to zero?

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I wish. Its there forever.
 
Is it three strikes during any single training event or three strikes during the duration of your career?

At my present employer, it's during a single training event.

American's even rougher than Eagle it sounds like. I had a buddy upgrade from 727 SO to 737 FO in his second year at AA. He got an 'unsat' for IOE after blowing an arrival into SFO and landing hard. Six days later he was out of a job ("Up or Out" policy).
 
During any single training event.

In this case, that will include my last two flights here, plus IOE and it wouldn't surprise me if it also included my probationary period.
 
two words not in my dictionary are "quit" and "can't".. they don't exist.. there are always challenges to overcome and you should take it for what it is! it's an eye opening experience and something that will eventually make you a better person, a better pilot and someday, i betcha you'll go back to that instructor and thank him for challenging you and he'll thank you for challenging him too!

tough it out bro.. your just starting, it's going to take some time to adjust and get used to.. you'll make mistakes, but you'll learn from them! now's not the time to change your mind, esp after going through all that groundschool work! maybe in 6 months after you've gotten used to the rigamaroll of things, you can change your mind!
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They keep your training records? I think ours are destroyed at the completion of OE.

Don't worry about it. Being junior sucks at any company. This industry is in a bad place right now. Things will improve with time. Tough it out, and you'll have some great stories to tell 10 or 20 years down the road.

Once upon a time in 2030 on board Continental Airlines Boeing 898 Super Cruiser:
FO: "I can't believe it! Finally, a line after 3 months on reserve! I can't believe I spent that much time on reserve. This company sucks. This industry sucks."
Capt: "Son, you ain't seen nothing. Ain't got nothin' to complain about! Back when I was startin' out, it was 3 y'ars on reserve, and was back after that 9/11 event you been learning about in high school. Never seen it so bad. Airlines all in bankrupcy. Takin' all kinds of paycuts. Stop yer bitchin'!"
 
So are ours. Liability concerns. Besides

My friend Earl Rogers sent me an advanced copy of his "Captain II" book and perhaps a snippet from his email from last week might help:


"...I think after reading both books that readers considering a career in aviation will have a good idea what to prepare themselves for. They will be ready for the good and the bad. It won't scare off the dedicated ones, I'm sure. They'll just set the throttles, adjust to manuevering airspeed, turn up the cockpit lights, and tighten the seat belt a little..."

Books not available on Amazon yet, but it's kickass reading.
 
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Don't worry about it. Being junior sucks at any company. This industry is in a bad place right now. Things will improve with time. Tough it out, and you'll have some great stories to tell 10 or 20 years down the road.

Once upon a time in 2030 on board Continental Airlines Boeing 898 Super Cruiser:
FO: "I can't believe it! Finally, a line after 3 months on reserve! I can't believe I spent that much time on reserve. This company sucks. This industry sucks."
Capt: "Son, you ain't seen nothing. Ain't got nothin' to complain about! Back when I was startin' out, it was 3 y'ars on reserve, and was back after that 9/11 event you been learning about in high school. Never seen it so bad. Airlines all in bankrupcy. Takin' all kinds of paycuts. Stop yer bitchin'!"

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AWESOME

I think I'm seeing things - an airline pilot saying that the industry is cool, and not saying that we're all stupid for choosing this job!!!!

Better go have some more coffee...
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I'll definiately have to pick up his second book Doug. I had the pleasure of meeting Earl and flying Microsoft Flight Sim on a pretty cool setup he has in his basement. I went there with our ground school instructor at Chicago Express to pick up a copy of "Captain" the first version, so my friend could read it.
 
Where is the website or where can I find info on the book? (both books) i'm looking and can't find it.
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eatsleepfly: Hang in there
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hope things get better for you real soon.

Matthew
 
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Where is the website or where can I find info on the book? (both books) i'm looking and can't find it.


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Three things:

SA.

Look on the reccomended books page on the website.

Second, the book isn't available for sale yet as I mentioned previously in my post.
 
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