The other thread is...well...busy, and I've got some questions that folks 'round these parts might be able to answer. I know at least
@Hacker15e and
@MikeD (and I think
@bunk22) have some first-hand training/experience in these matters...I know there's other MIL-aviation guys around here (
@mhcasey,
@frog_flyer and
@Fencer) who can probably help answer, too. Yes, I'm leveraging the forum by pinging these guys.
1) Will accessing the debris field (I can't call it a crash site) tell people with
specific expertise exactly what kind of missile hit the airplane? I suppose you might find explosive residue if you're sniffing for it, but I would also think that at the energies involved, the missile would simply be completely obliterated? Do they look for parts of the missile? Do these kinds of missiles actually impact the plane or just detonate a proximity fuse or something?
2) Do different SAM models have specific thermal blooms which are unique to their given model? Can you tell what type was launched by its IR signature? Would civilian radar coverage pick up a track on the launch? Is that the profile that would tell them what kind it was?
3) While commercial airliners don't carry threat receivers, there are a lot of other assets in the area (I am told) that do. Would another aircraft with a sensor pack (like an AWACS or other ELINT bird) "see" or "hear" the tracking/fire control radar of the SAM station? Or is the beam tightly directional and therefore not seen by a receiver it's not pointed at? (I know very little about fire control radars, obviously)
4) I read once that some AAA batteries are optically-guided to prevent radar jamming, flare decoys and also someone firing something like a HARM back down the beam at the launcher. Is the suspected battery that kind of platform? Could the crew have mis-identified the plane, thinking it was a Ukrainian Antonov or something? Just wondering about that.
I appreciate the answers/expertise you guys can bring to the table.
Sorry I'm not Hacker Mike or bunk.
Can't answer 1.
2. Don't know about specific thermal blooms Can a civilian radar pick up a track? Obviously not using secondary radar, but primary radar. It's a mountainous area, how good is the radar coverage. If a radar operator is able to pick up a primary radar paint on the SAM, it will obviously be a fast mover - you'll pick up the primary paint from the missile (if the radar is sensitive enough), the next time the search radar comes around, the second paint will be in another part of the radar screen, and it will depend on experience of the operator to tell that this new paint that is nowhere near the last paint on the SAM is the same track and that it is moving at Mach 3+. As most civilian ATC controllers are dealing with M.70-M.90 aircraft and are relying on SSR beacons associated with a primary paint, I doubt an ATC controller will notice just the primary radar track of a SAM if the ATC radar system hasn't filtered it out as a "spurious" track.
2 and 3 Can you tell what type it is? Can other assets see or hear the track/fire control?
A SAM system consists of two kinds of radar - a search radar and a track/fire control radar. an EW system will pick up both kinds of radar and each kind of radar has unique characteristics that you can tell which one it is. There are several ways a SAM system can engage. Before a SAM system can engage it has to know there is a target out there so that's what the search radar does. An EW receiver will see the search radar. From there it depends on how the SAM system is designed. Before it can shoot, a fire control computer has to determine a fire control solution. Normally the search radar usually does not have the precision required for the computer to determine a fire control solution from the search track. That precision has to come from a fire control radar. So a fire control radar is assigned to the target and "illuminates" / "lights up" the target. (Which by the way is considered a hostile act.) An EW receiver will see this immediately as a fire control radar has different radar characteristics from a search radar. For a pilot in a RWR equipped aircraft, this is his or her first indication he is being targeted.
Once a fire control radar acquires the target, the computer gathers the data needed to fire the missile, computes a solution, and it will either be engageable/"birds affirm" or not/"birds negat" due to whatever kinematics, etc. if it's engagable, then the SAM operator has some more decisions, how many missiles to send to ensure desired level of Pk, etc. and then order the missile engagement and send the missile(s) on it's way. If it's not engageable, you can still shoot, but the missile won't track the target as the fire control computer hasn't figured out the data needed to guide the missile, or if its due to kinematics, the target is outside the physical limits of the missile to ensure a successful kill.
I don't know the specifics of the Buk system, but wikipedia says that it is a Semi-Active Radar Homer. So that means to me that the target has to be continuously illuminated by a fire control radar during the entire time of flight of the missile. Think of the fire control radar/illuminator as a flashlight beam that you point at the target. The missile is looking for the reflected radar off the target. So the possibility of the missile being aimed at another aircraft and the missile tracking to the wrong aircraft is not valid one. The radar is not aboard the missile. So if the Buk is a SARH, the Malaysian aircraft was deliberately targeted. The missile is going where the fire control radar is pointed so the airliner was illuminated the entire time by the missile battery. Any time illumination is disrupted, the missile may track to the last known point, or it may self-destruct, it depends on how the system is designed.
I've worked with two different SAM systems (Mk-92 and AEGIS) The Mk-92 worked like above, AEGIS is different - the search radar has the precision to determine a fire control solution without illuminating the target, and I could do all the evaluation I needed without the illuminator giving any forewarning. Launch the missile, and about 2 seconds prior to impact, the fire control illuminator illuminates the target. So a pilot flying against my system has 2 seconds heads up and the missile is 2 seconds from impact when his RWR gear alerts him of a fire control lock or if I really didn't want to give any warning, I'd tell the system not to illuminate, and the missile will continue and intercept based on steering guidance commands from just the SPY-1 search radar. and all the pilot would sees is he was only on search radar the whole time.
4. optically guided AAA batteries - normally associated with gun systems, not really missile systems.
radar jamming - works for search radars, not so much for fire control radars, but then you can always burn thru jamming.
flare decoys - doesn't work against radar guided weapons
firing a HARM back at the launcher - not really used to defeat an ongoing SAM engagement as there isn't enough time - it won't take out the launcher unless the radar is on the launcher vehicle, but will take out the search or the tracking radar. but as far as defeating a SARH missile inflight - if you kill the illuminator before the SAM hits the target, fighter pilots do this though as the other fighter is usually the illuminator - I'm assuming flying relatively straight and level while the SARH AAM missile is inflight.
mistaken ID - personally I think this is what happened. ID'ing your target is part of the search phase and that is what consumes 99.95% of your time an a SAM operator, building a RAP (relevant air picture) and verifying the ID of your tracks and it's GIGO - garbage in garbage out. And whoever launched the missile against MH17, really didn't know who was on the receiving end.
