Some interesting info regarding ADD/ADHD

naunga

New Member
So I just spoke with my mother today. She works with disabled students and is also the ADA compliance officer for the university she works for.

Anyhow she was telling me that a lot of insurance companies and even some other medical groups are beginning to consider ADD/ADHD a childhood disorder. Meaning it cannot be diagnosed after childhood.

This would also seem to indicate that if a previous diagnosis was made in adulthood it would no longer be valid.

So...in THEORY, I could most likely get away with no longer telling the FAA I have ADD, because a psychologist would tell me that it cannot be diagnosed past childhood.

Of course that depends on how up to date the psychologist is.

Anyhow, I found it interesting.

Naunga
 
Well good luck with that. ADD is the holy grail to the psych community. It is their disease and their main source of income and their primary entrance into treating people for life for other ailments. And many say (and I agree) it is a total fraud.

(Seems like this is the day for controversial threads on psychiatric disorders). I would do every thing possible to get this diagnosis removed from my record (and I don't know what is possible). And to you parents out there, think long and hard before you allow your children to get stuck with this label by "helpful" doctors or school officials. It will likely follow them and limit their career options for the rest of their lives.

And please don't hit me with your stories about the truth of ADD. I've been up to my neck in it for years and have tutored kids diagnosed with ADD and I ain't buyin' it.
 
While I don't agree with what you are saying, flyover, I will agree that I think ADD/ADHD has become a catch-all for undiagnosable problems with any similarity. Something is there, and wrong (different is a better word) or people wouldn't have problems completing simple daily tasks or living like other "normal" people.

Whether it is a product of our society or family life, I don't know. I have no doubt in my mind though that there is definitely something different about the way some brains operate. Whether those people need actual medication or not is another story.
 
In my experience it is an academic issue. For example one of the most effective ways to reduce the number of ADD cases is to put 100% phonics based reading programs in a school.

Every kid I've worked with who had this diagnosis simply didn't understand some fundamental concept in his education. For example, couldn't read (or some other problem). Fix that, which is easy to do, and no more fidgeting and "attention" or behavior problems. No wonder the schools are so anxious to blame "brain chemistry".
 
flyover,


I agree to a certain degree. I think that ADD and ADHD are both actual mental illnesses that people suffer from, but I also think it has been overdiagnosed. The only person that can make the diagnosis is a psychitrist (with an MD after his/her name) using the DSM4 as guidance (it's real hard to trick that thing). I keep hearing story's about everyone from doctors to school nurses and teachers making diagnoses of ADD/ADHD. In fact I HATE to hear teachers rant about X student who OBVIOUSLY has ADD. Think the kid has a serious problem? Send them to a shrink. If they're reply is "oh we'll just give them some drugs" then they need to be fired because that's a SERIOUS disservice to X student. If there is a mental illness present, it needs to be treated; properly. If not, then figure out some way to deal with whatever the symptoms are.

Can you tell I place a lot of trust in medical professionals? I trust them in the same way that I trust pilots of airiliners; they highly trained and have some serious experience behind them to make the decisions they do. Can't stand psuedo science or the practitioners of it.
 
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Well good luck with that. ADD is the holy grail to the psych community. It is their disease and their main source of income and their primary entrance into treating people for life for other ailments. And many say (and I agree) it is a total fraud.

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A total fraud with a verifiable neurological basis?

http://cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/conditions/11/29/hyperactivity.reut/index.html

I *probably* have ADHD, but was never officially diagnosed with it as it wasn't established as a disorder when I was a kid in the '70s. I do know that I was on some sort of medication for hyperactivity problems when I was very young, and skimming over the DSM IV criteria, I'm probably diagnosable. It's interesting that the usual treatments for ADHD are stimulants, for why would you want to stimulate a hyperactive kid? Turns out that ADHD symptoms are largely reflective of the brain's not getting ENOUGH stimulation. This is why kids with ADHD-related problems are calmed by stimulants like Ritalin, and normal kids get high or rush off it.

Try to keep an open mind remember that once upon a time, people thought Bernoulli's theories were snake oil too.
 
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So I just spoke with my mother today. She works with disabled students and is also the ADA compliance officer for the university she works for.

Anyhow she was telling me that a lot of insurance companies and even some other medical groups are beginning to consider ADD/ADHD a childhood disorder. Meaning it cannot be diagnosed after childhood.

This would also seem to indicate that if a previous diagnosis was made in adulthood it would no longer be valid.

So...in THEORY, I could most likely get away with no longer telling the FAA I have ADD, because a psychologist would tell me that it cannot be diagnosed past childhood.

Of course that depends on how up to date the psychologist is.

Anyhow, I found it interesting.

Naunga

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Sorry to burst your bubble but according to the American Medical Association they reckognize a disorder known as Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. The current diagnosis could still be very much valid if you show symptoms as an adult but it can be overcome.
 
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A total fraud with a verifiable neurological basis?

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Definitely debatable. ADD/ADHD is still a controversial disease even in the psych community. And certainly mass drugging for it is contorversial, especially given the side effects of Ritalin.

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I do know that I was on some sort of medication for hyperactivity problems when I was very young, and skimming over the DSM IV criteria, I'm probably diagnosable. It's interesting that the usual treatments for ADHD are stimulants, for why would you want to stimulate a hyperactive kid? Turns out that ADHD symptoms are largely reflective of the brain's not getting ENOUGH stimulation. This is why kids with ADHD-related problems are calmed by stimulants like Ritalin, and normal kids get high or rush off it.

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Yeah, and interesting that Ritalin is becoming a big street drug.

I'll give you the same friendly advice. Don't ever tell anyone in any position of authority about any disagnosis or medication for hyperactivity.

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Try to keep an open mind remember that once upon a time, people thought Bernoulli's theories were snake oil too.

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Well I'll try. Like I said, I've been into this subject for decades. Shelves full of books on the subject. Worked with ADD kids. My conclusion is it's a fake disease and that most of the "symptoms" are caused by faulty education practices. I can demonstrate it on individual kids just like I can demonstrate Bernoulli's theories. And I know people that handle these kids every day without drugs. So I may be as set in that as I am about Bernoulli.

DSM IV = fairy tales.
 
I have to agree with aloft. There is something there, once we realize how to find it accurately. And we will someday. The brain is a sort of frontier that we barely understand now.

It might be an easy science one day when someone is able to think outside of the box that still evelops the people thinking outside of the box in today's world.
 
Well here's the opinion of someone who has it.

But first I want to deal with some things here...

AMA aside, all I'm relating to you is what my mother, someone very active, in the psychological and educational communities who deals with ADA issues and students with disabilties ranging from ADD to blindness said that many insurance companies are rejecting claims for costs associated with the dianosis of Adult ADD.

When she researched it further she found that it's being driven by a disagreement in the APA who first presented ADD as a problem. The APA is now saying that ADD is a childhood disorder and cannot be diagnosed in adults. Of course there is argument over this fact, but if the APA is questioning the validity of ADD in adults then one could LEGALLY say that a diagnosis made as an adult is now null and void, and you could get a psychologist to atest to that fact.

This is much like the FDA changing the guidelines regarding obesity. One minute anyone with a BMI of 30+ is obsese, the next it's 25+. They could come out tomorrow and say, now it's a BMI of 40+. It's simply a definition, and when you no longer fit the definition you no longer have the problem...by definition.

Now. Here's my opinon on the reality of ADD/ADHD.

First off they're misnamed. I do not have a disorder. A disorder is defined as an ailment that affects the function of the mind or body. This would imply that ADD is a sickness and needs to be cured (much like people did and some do view homosexuality).

By calling it a disorder you indicate that A) the people with it are sick and B) they need to be cured.

It's this belief that is causing people to drug their children out of their minds.

So it is only with this norrow view that I will agree that ADD is not a "disorder".

It is further misnamed by including the word deficit. This indicates that people are lacking attention, but ask anyone who has ADD and they will tell you that the problem isn't a lack of attention, it's actually an over abundance of it.

We pay attention to absolutely everything. I can't tell you how many days I have longed for a sensory deprevation tank. The problem is that unless I can't hear by own body I know that it will drive me nuts.

The best way for me to describe how I feel is that it's like there is a constant radio static in my head. Get in your plane sometime, tune in two very busy tower freqs and put them both through the cabin speakers, turn on your iPod, then play a DVD on your laptop, and start the engine. Listen to all that for the entire day. That's my brain.

I get very little relief from that din. Except for the times I can manage to hyperfocus. Hyperfocusing is the paradox of ADD as we know it today. Hyperfocusing is that ability to focus on something at the expense of everything else. I've hyperfocused on things and had to be force out of burning buildings (literally). The problem with hyperfocusing is that it's not like we can choose to do it with anything. It must be something that we care about, a paper that we want to write, a video game, a TV show, you name it.

"Normal" people see people with ADD hyperfocus and they say things like, "If only he cared about his school work as much as he does that dumb video game."

So it's not that we have a lack of attention it's that we have too much.

Some theorize that the ADD brain is evolved from the brains of pre-historic hunters, who needed to by able to not lose track of their prey, their hunting party, and any predators that my by stalking them. So their brain needed to be agile and flip from one task to the next without missing a beat and without losing sight of the other tasks. Whereas the gatherer's brain needed to be able to focus on one task, picking berries or what have you, for a very long time. As time marched on and we became more of an agrarian society the hunters didn't need those skills anymore. The industrial revolution came along and we needed them even less, but for some reason some people's brains never made the shift from dynamic to static. It's probably a good thing too, because a lot of those people are very creative. Even our stereotypes reflect this, I mean the artist who only works when "inspired". The writer who can't deal with the hustle and bustle of city life and must hole in a cabin in the woods to work, or how about the entrepreneur who runs a business like a madman. I mean check this out http://www.additudemag.com. They're running an article this month about top executives with ADD. The owner of JetBlue is one of them.

And yes, everyone at somepoint experiences the symptoms of ADD, but NOT EVERYDAY. It's the chronic nature of the symptoms that make ADD a problem, or more appropriately it's the chronic symptoms combined with a lack of coping mechanisms that can be problematic.

The answer, however, is not drugs, but education. People with ADD are very able to slow themselves down and work a task through to completion, but they need to learn how to do it without drugs, because if they don't the minute they go off the drugs they can't cope.

So IMHO ADD is real. I live it everyday, but it's not a sickness it simply is having a brain that functions differently from the rest of the world. It's not a bad thing, but teachers, parents, employers, etc. need to understand that drugs aren't the answer in this case.

You cannot correct the normal function of someone's brain.

If you want more info PM me and I can hook you up with a bunch of resouces.

Later.

Naunga
 
Here's my view,

ADD = real condition that makes it hard for a person to learn the way things are taught in school. People that have ADD are quite intligent, but translating that ability to learn to a class room enviroment is difficult. This is a lifelong condition, instead of feeding Riddilin to kids, they should be learning how to deal with a diffrent way of learning.

I have ADD and my grades in public school reflected it. If something is explained or shown to me, I rember it forever. However I can't retain anything that must be memorized, nor can I really learn from simply reading it from a book.



ADHD = Mom or Dad didn't discipline their kids, now they are running out of control. Pshrinks have to tell the parents something, so it's ADHD. Here's some downers to keep your kid calm.
 
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ADHD = Mom or Dad didn't discipline their kids, now they are running out of control. Pshrinks have to tell the parents something, so it's ADHD. Here's some downers to keep your kid calm.

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You're right on the money with ADD.

However, you're way off on ADHD. I think you're confusing it with ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder), which is where the kids are completely out of control and "no amount" of disipline works.

I think that ODD actually may be a catch all for kids with multiple learning / home life problems, that the parents won't address.

ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) is just ADD except that in addition to your mind being chaotic, you body is too. Kids with ADHD are still as bright as kids with ADD, but they can't sit still. I actually have ADHD, and work better on my feet.

It's probably one of the reasons I've never really considered being a pro pilot. Having to sit in a cockpit on the ground waiting for a release would drive me bonkers. One we were airborne I'd be fine (as I am now in my training, but it's that hurry up and wait that would kill me, but get me in a kitchen where I'm on my feet moving around managing a million orders at once and I'm happy as a clam.

Strange, but true.

Naunga
 
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ADHD = Mom or Dad didn't discipline their kids, now they are running out of control. Pshrinks have to tell the parents something, so it's ADHD. Here's some downers to keep your kid calm.

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75% of the time this is the case.

Take away the sugar and TV, add disipline with some good parenting, and it'll clear right up.

A very small % of the kids on Ritlian are actually ADHD.
 
Well here is some great news for you. I was diagnosed with ADD as a child and stopped medication at age 17. I am 24 now and applied for my medical back in March(1st class). They never even asked for info on it and I let them know about it straight up. Had it not been for a blood disorder I have I would have got an unrestricted medical right then and there. Only took them until October to realize that there is no way that can affect me in flight, so here I sit now with a full FAA 2nd class medical(I let the first class expire) with no restrictions showing if you can get off the meds and do alright, you can fly. I agree with the others in here that ADD is a hoax. If you apply yourself and give yourself a little motivation you will be just fine. Now if I had only decided to go to flight school instead of A&P school...... Ah well 1.5 years and Ill be able to do that if finances allow. Keep the faith and stay honest. Worst thing you can do is lie.
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ADHD = Mom or Dad didn't discipline their kids, now they are running out of control. Pshrinks have to tell the parents something, so it's ADHD. Here's some downers to keep your kid calm.

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Two things. First, not all shrinks run to drugs. My parents are both shrinks and are quite well known for avoiding medication unless all other theraputic options are exhausted. I don't believe that any of their patients utilize drug therapy for psychological issues. For genuine neurologic problems, drugs may have benefits that outweigh the costs (potential or guaranteed) and may therefore be a viable option. But only if other things have been tried first. Not all doctors are money hungry, drug-company serving SOBs.

Second thing: Congrats, PolarBear! You still have a 1st class medical!
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If you were issued a 1st class, it will remain a first class, even if you can no longer exercise 1st class privelages. I just went over this with a student, so I'm primed . . .
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This is much like the FDA changing the guidelines regarding obesity. One minute anyone with a BMI of 30+ is obsese, the next it's 25+. They could come out tomorrow and say, now it's a BMI of 40+. It's simply a definition, and when you no longer fit the definition you no longer have the problem...by definition.

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yeah, that's starting to pi$$ me off too....it's silly! By some charts, I could lose a few pounds, but by another, I'm severely obese, and am at risk of dying any day now!!
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Somebody told me once that I may have had ADD. According to this person, it would explain my horrible grades in the public school system.

Now, let's be realistic. I grew up in a poverty-stricken area, in a relatively bad neighborhood. Neither of my parents had a high-school diploma. Dad drank alot (God rest his soul.....that's my dog!), and so did Mom. Most of my childhood friends are in jail or dead.

My Dad pushed me to read and learn, but my Mom didn't care. If I did well, I was going to get a good job at Sears or at The Allwood Door Company , like my uncle Buck.

Let's face it....academics weren't the priority in my house growing up. Was it ADD? He11 no, it was growing up in a disfunctional family, in a bad neighborhood, with really bad influences. I didn't know how to study, what to study...and I didn't care! It wasn't until I spent some time in a very, very rigid enviroment did I learn how to prioritize. Even now, i'm still trying to figure out how to be a responsible human being.

No, it's not ADD...it's being lazy. Even 5 year-olds can be lazy. I was one of them.

Is there ADD? Yes. But it's not to be blamed for every problem-child out there.

Sorry...I went wayyyyy off on a tangent.
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I got diagnosed with it. And then I was prescribed Ritalin. But I told my mother it made me feel like a zombie, and so she took me off it.

I was a hyperactive kid. But you know why?

I was bored to tears. Not to toot my own horn here, but when I was in first grade, I was reading at like a junior high level. So you can only imagine just how bored I was.

And you have a kid who's six, seven years old who is bored to tears and what are you going to get?

Yup. Someone who is not mature enough to do the adult thing and deal with it and who acts out.

So, was I really hyperactive? Probably not, just bored.

Thank God my mother had the sense to say, well, when he is at home, he behaves. Maybe he really isn't hyperactive and let's get him off the Ritalin.
 
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Laziness is a very common label for someone who is or will be diagnosed with ADD. Just FYI.

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Exactly! So, give them a swift kick in the a$$. Then we can actually focus on the kids that really have a problem.
 
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