Solo Touch and Goes
- Thread starter Dazzler
- Start date
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yep. I do, but at the home base, not on cross countries.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
No, I don't let them unless I am in the airplane. If they want to do it, they should feel free when they are certified and I am not directly responsible for them.
Chewie von Nubbins
New Member
Alrighty Gurus. Why? Is it b/c solo pattern work is a significantly higher risk category for solo students?
There is a school that anytime the student performs the first solo, it is all done as touch n goes in the pattern for 3 or 4 of them. This isn't the norm?
Thanks in advance, fellows.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Hard to tell without a real survey but I don't think so. While a lot of places and CFIs have no no objection at all to students doing touch & goes, I think it's more common for those first 3 solo landings be full-stop taxi backs.
In the case of the first solo (and for me, the unfamiliar environment of a cross country destination), there's just enough "newness" to the situation that I think that having to think about the "go" part of a touch & go is an unnecessary distraction.
Besides, there's only one reason I've ever been able to see for for touch & goes - saving time. And isn't first solo something to savor?
Andrew_VT
Well-Known Member
I had no idea how uptight most CFIs and Flight Schools were about things like this until I started reading web-forums.
I let my students do T+Gs on their first solo's if they wanted to. Getting ready to solo mostly all of the landings are T+Gs to get the most landing practice per hour so why would you change it up on them for their solo? We are talking tricycle gear and no big crosswind here right?
Side Hijack: Do any of you CFI's make your students get a paper signed at cross country destinations to 'prove' they completed the flight?
...a few of them used to show up at my airport asking me to sign something and I couldn't believe it.
I let my students do T+Gs on their first solo's if they wanted to. Getting ready to solo mostly all of the landings are T+Gs to get the most landing practice per hour so why would you change it up on them for their solo? We are talking tricycle gear and no big crosswind here right?
Side Hijack: Do any of you CFI's make your students get a paper signed at cross country destinations to 'prove' they completed the flight?
...a few of them used to show up at my airport asking me to sign something and I couldn't believe it.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
My first solo was "stop and goes"
I do touch and goes. He never said not to. So I guess its alright. This same guy takes students to a grass strip to do real soft field stuff after the 'simulated' stuff. I'll tell you what 'simulated' soft field is nowhere near the same as the real deal.
I do touch and goes. He never said not to. So I guess its alright. This same guy takes students to a grass strip to do real soft field stuff after the 'simulated' stuff. I'll tell you what 'simulated' soft field is nowhere near the same as the real deal.
tgrayson
New Member
Our school lost two airplanes arguably due to student pilot T&G's. After the second plane was lost, the school banned T&G's for students. Are T&G's inherently more dangerous or are the pilots just inadequately trained? Maybe a little bit of both. Most pilots land too fast and this makes directional control a more challenging.
pilot4500
IT Architect/ Former Cirrus Charter Pilot
On the first solo, I would make my students do three full stop taxi backs. After that if the student felt comfortable doing touch and goes solo, and I felt comfortable with it, then I would allow them to do touch and goes.
As far as making students get a paper signed on a cross country to prove they were there, I have NEVER done that. I know that there are a small number of instructors out there that practice this, but I never have.
Dazzler
Well-Known Member
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure which, but this was either a requirement or a very common practice at some time in the past.
You couldn't believe it when someone came in asking for the signing. In your neck of the woods 15 or so years ago, someone at you airport would've been surprised if they didn't.
dc3flyer
Well-Known Member
I always did that when I was an instructor. I always wished someone would have taken me to a real grass strip so I always took my students to one. Most grass strips are also considerably shorter than paved ones... two birds in one stone!
aerospacepilot
New Member
My first solo I did three touch and go's. Then again it was on a 7,000ft runway. I guess it all depends on the circumstances.
If you are flying out of an airport with a 2,600ft runway, it would not be a good idea to allow solo student pilot touch and go's. You are the CFI. This choice should be at your discression. Base your decision upon the length of the runway. Base your decision upon how sharp the student is. But don't just say you cannot due touch and go's because you are a student pilot. That is dumb. If your school is charging hobbs time, and I were your student, I would fire you. Doing taxi backs at an airport with a large runway is a huge waste of time and money (If I were being charged on tach time, that is a different story). 5,000+ft on runway is plenty of room.
If you are flying out of an airport with a 2,600ft runway, it would not be a good idea to allow solo student pilot touch and go's. You are the CFI. This choice should be at your discression. Base your decision upon the length of the runway. Base your decision upon how sharp the student is. But don't just say you cannot due touch and go's because you are a student pilot. That is dumb. If your school is charging hobbs time, and I were your student, I would fire you. Doing taxi backs at an airport with a large runway is a huge waste of time and money (If I were being charged on tach time, that is a different story). 5,000+ft on runway is plenty of room.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
...or as an emergency maneuver (go around for obstacle on runway, either animate or inanimate).
...or as a proficiency/skill maneuver
I'd like to hear more about how the students "lost" the airplane on a t&g. Such as type aircraft, type of airport and experience level of students. If it was a Stearman at 100 degrees on a 1000' runway OK, But a C152 on a 12,000' runway at sea level, I'd say that instruction was lacking somewhere.
On this surface this sounds like more of a training issue than a maneuver issue.
*****************
Personally, I would let students do T&Gs towards the end of their pvt training when they were not compelled to rush and only at certain airports. I have never heard of doing T&Gs during initial solo and would never do so. I found the following data very interesting.
Methods: NTSB data tapes were analyzed for crashes during 1989-1992 that involved a student pilot or a flight for instructional purposes.
Results: During 1989-1992, 1226 instructional airplanes were involved in crashes, resulting in 250 deaths and 128 serious injuries. Midair collisions during these four years involved 38 instructional airplanes (2.5%) and accounted for 20% of all deaths. Sixteen pilots in midair collisions were on solo flights; on average, they were younger but more experienced than trainees in other crashes on solo. Detailed review of crashes during 1989 and 1991 revealed that loss of control on landing characterized 227 of the 638 crashes, or 36%. Crosswinds contributed to 28% of all crashes. The 94 stalls were 15% of the series and 46% of all fatal crashes. Student solos were 51% of the series; 193 of the 360 students on solo foundered due to loss of control on landing or takeoff. Touch-and-go landings accounted for 22% of all crashes on solo.
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/oamtechreports/1990s/1996/9603/index.cfm
jrh
Well-Known Member
Me too.
I had no idea how uptight people are about a lot of things until I started reading web forums.
I have an identical philosophy.
Of course, the location of the solo makes a big difference. When I taught at a 6,500' runway we always did touch and goes. When I taught at a 2,800' we never did touch and goes. You have to use common sense considering the circumstances. As a whole, I don't see anything particularly risky about touch and goes though, as long as there is enough room to do them.
In fact, I even do something especially crazy...I've never limited students to three times around the pattern on their first solo. I tell them I'm signing them off for the privilege because I know they can handle it. I tell them three is a good traditional number, but if they get freaked out by something and want to stop after one, or if they're having a great time and want to do ten, either way is fine. They're PIC, they know what the conditions are like, they know how much fuel they have left, they make the decision on when to quit.
No, I never have, but my first instructor did that with me, so I know the practice is out there. Kind of strange, but I can see the logic to it.
tgrayson
New Member
You can't separate the two. The amount of training to make any maneuver safe will vary among maneuvers. With an hour of training, most student pilots can safely make turns in either direction, but they are unlikely to safely perform aileron rolls. Not that the latter maneuver is inherently unsafe, but it's unsafe for the amount of training provided.
With students often soloing in 6-12 hours, it may be that T&G's are unsafe for that amount of training. All we have is anecdotal evidence.
Your whole post gets a :yeahthat: from me, but I highlighted the above:
Do you find most students will do ONLY three even though you say it's okay to do more if they feel comfortable? I have, and it's weird.
Then again, I gotta be on the side of the runway with a radio for those initial solos, so if they decided to do 15 I might get a little irked, especially if I have some beer waiting for me at home.
