Sole manipulator Turbine PIC redux

SteveC

SteveC

"Laconic"
Staff member
I love gloating.

Reference this job posting for a CE650 captain position:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/jobs-available/97731-kdal-business-jet-access.html#post1336077

Especially the pre-reqs:

Justin172 said:
- Airline Transport Pilot Rating
- 5000 flight hours total time
- 2500 flight hours as PIC (as defined by FAR 61.51(e))
- 1000 flight hours in Multi-engine
- 750 hours Turbojet
- 250 hours in type
Click to expand...


Here's the gloating part:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/34425-logging-turbine-pic-2.html#post457025
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/34425-logging-turbine-pic-2.html#post457229
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/36135-stay-regional-go-corporate.html#post479071
http://forums.jetcareers.com/technical-talk/46327-how-log-part-135-training.html#post617072
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/50230-might-stupid-question.html#post667318
http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline-pilots/65273-sic-time-what-good-2.html#post873822
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/72819-faa-interpretation-help.html#post962928
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/78992-might-well-move-lav-now-pop-popcorn-out-3.html#post1046678
http://forums.jetcareers.com/technical-talk/79671-can-sic-log-pic-type-rating.html#post1055570
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/81630-flight-review-logging-pic-2.html#post1082663
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/86226-logging-pic-turbine.html#post1154171
http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/87772-can-i-log-help-please-2.html#post1178511

Sweet vindication! :D
 
SteveC said:
- 2500 flight hours as PIC (as defined by FAR 61.51(e))
Click to expand...

It might be assuming 61.51(e)(2):
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.

​
rather than (e)(1):

(1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person--
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
​
I have a hard time believing that someone seeking out a captain would be uninterested in the amount of time spent as captain. Note the advertisement said "hours as PIC", not "hours PIC".
 
tgrayson said:
It might be assuming 61.51(e)(2):
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.

​
rather than (e)(1):

(1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person--
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;​
Click to expand...


Do you have any particular reason for thinking that? It seems to me that If they were explicit enough to site the FAR they wouldn't have left an ambiguity like that. I think the natural assumption would have to be that they intended ALL of 61.51(e)
​
 
bhp said:
Do you have any particular reason for thinking that?
Click to expand...

Only what I stated. And I think that upon reflection, SteveC agreed my interpretation is more likely. While many companies may accept "sole manipulator" time, I suspect very few actively seek it out when time acting as PIC is available, particularly when looking for a Captain.
 
tgrayson said:
Only what I stated. And I think that upon reflection, SteveC agreed my interpretation is more likely. While many companies may accept "sole manipulator" time, I suspect very few actively seek it out when time acting as PIC is available, particularly when looking for a Captain.
Click to expand...

At our airline, CA has his hands on the thrust levers on every takeoff. To me, I think that squashes "sole manipulator" for the JetU FOs that like to put their legs in the PIC column. :)
 
I can't believe we're even having this discussion. If you don't sign the paperwork, you're not the PIC. I can't even imagine the deafening peels of laughter when some snot nosed kid tries to pass off supervised gear pulling time as "PIC".
 
Boris Badenov said:
I can't believe we're even having this discussion. If you don't sign the paperwork, you're not the PIC. I can't even imagine the deafening peels of laughter when some snot nosed kid tries to pass off supervised gear pulling time as "PIC".
Click to expand...

I've had discussions with 300 hour guys with a CRJ type who were talking about applying to SWA in about a year and a half. They were talking about logging the legs they flew as PIC under the "sole manipulator" clause. They were crushed when I pointed out the fine print on the SWA application.
 
kellwolf said:
I've had discussions with 300 hour guys with a CRJ type who were talking about applying to SWA in about a year and a half. They were talking about logging the legs they flew as PIC under the "sole manipulator" clause. They were crushed when I pointed out the fine print on the SWA application.
Click to expand...

:rotfl: what a bunch of starry-eyed SJSers.
 
kellwolf said:
I've had discussions with 300 hour guys with a CRJ type who were talking about applying to SWA in about a year and a half. They were talking about logging the legs they flew as PIC under the "sole manipulator" clause. They were crushed when I pointed out the fine print on the SWA application.
Click to expand...

Wow. Do they ever ask you, grandpa, why you're still hanging around at a regional when all you need is 1000TPIC (Right Seat) to be working 5 days a month and pulling down 200k/year?
 
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