Socal, a couple of questions...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

1. It appears you made it through without busting any check rides. Is that uncommon at ATP? Do people generally bust because they have not put in the proper amount of effort?

2. What airlines do ATP grads/instructors usually get hired by? I know COEX seems to be the big one, but have you found that any others hire ATP grads when hiring is good?

Thanks for all of your posts. It is really great to here about the positive experiences given all the negativity that you normally see on the internet regarding flight schools. I am very interested in ATP myself and am considering attending next summer. Please keep us up to date on your progress and good luck with your job search!

 

[socal]

Kevin,

The flight partner they paired me up with busted his CFII and his CFI single -- to be honest, he told me that he didn't want to instruct. He busted because he didn't really put his heart into it.

Two guys out at Riverside busted their instrument rides -- both of those were real brainfarts. One guy leveled off 1000 feet above his MDA -- in a hurry, he just misread the altimeter.

As someone who brainfarted and pinked their private checkride, I know that it is possible to go through ATP's accellerated pace and not bust. It just takes a lot of hard work and a lot of study.

But, I will alos relate a story to you about another important element in passing a checkride -- relaxing. The day before my initial CFI (my MEI), my mother flew up to visit me in Ft. Lauderdale. She made dinner plans with my nieces and nephews. In a panic, I told her that I had to study all night -- that this was going to be the hardest checkride I ever took. But, I ultimately decided that spending time with family would be good for me -- and besides, I had to eat, right? I ended up having dinner with them and hanging out until 10:00 PM. I freaked out a little, thinking that I had been irresponsible. But, as I started to look over all my notes again, I realized that I already knew all the information I needed to know -- I was already prepared to be a CFI. I got a good night's sleep and went to the checkride confident and relaxed.

I know that my first few checkrides, I freaked out. But the more I did (6 in two months), the more I learned how important it is to just relax and do what you already know how to do -- if you didn't know the information or the manuevers, your instructor wouldn't have sent you on the ride. Is it tough doing commercial manuevers that you just learned the day before? You bet your ass it is. But, if you relax and keep the mindset that you are flying the plane -- not letting the plane fly you -- you'll pass with flying colors.

Give it a try -- just relax, get a good night's sleep and enjoy the ride.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Travis,
Did you see or hear of anyone being dropped from the program by ATP, or just not making it through certain ratings? If so could you relate to us what went wrong? I'm concerned that if I have trouble with any part that I could be sent home with a pro-rated refund at $200.00 per hour.
Thanks!

 

[socal]

No -- I did not see anyone dropped. I do know of one guy who was asked to leave, but that was after taking a swing at his instructor. I know a number of pilots who gave ATP fits -- they were hard to deal with, busted checkrides, didn't wanty to fly in bad weather -- but they all stayed on and finished the prgram for not one cent above the quoted price. ATP is not in the business of busting guys out and taking their money. As Jim Kosziarski said to me on the telephone a few days ago, their best advertisement is satisfied customers -- they don't get that by failing guys out. Not everyone is going to be a natural pilot -- for some it takes more work. As long as you have a good attitude and try your hardest, you will be just fine.

Also, an important thing to remember is that ATP's main business is not the Career Pilot Program -- it's the ATPs and add-ons that they do (mainly for the military guys/gals). I've even heard that they make very little off the Career Pilot Program, which I would believe after seeing what you get for what you pay.

 

[socal]

No -- I did not see anyone dropped. I do know of one guy who was asked to leave, but that was after taking a swing at his instructor. I know a number of pilots who gave ATP fits -- they were hard to deal with, busted checkrides, didn't wanty to fly in bad weather -- but they all stayed on and finished the prgram for not one cent above the quoted price. ATP is not in the business of busting guys out and taking their money. As Jim Kosziarski said to me on the telephone a few days ago, their best advertisement is satisfied customers -- they don't get that by failing guys out. Not everyone is going to be a natural pilot -- for some it takes more work. As long as you have a good attitude and try your hardest, you will be just fine.

Also, an important thing to remember is that ATP's main business is not the Career Pilot Program -- it's the ATPs and add-ons that they do (mainly for the military guys/gals). I've even heard that they make very little off the Career Pilot Program, which I would believe after seeing what you get for what you pay.

 

[Adlerson]

One of my good friends in the program was terminated, but frankly, it was no surprise. This person was sweet as could be and didn't create any stink, as such, but just didn't.. Cut it. I'm sad to say. It does take a lot for this to happen, but it can.
He had one of those experiences when you come home from a cross country flight and was told 'You have your Commercial checkride tomorrow'. (It happened to me too. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif If you go through this program; As soon as your TT hits 250, be ready for that commercial checkride.)
So he paniched and demanded not to take that v-ride. Which created scheduling problems for the company, which got the VP involved, which can be bad.. In the end, he was given a week's extension, to get the knowledge down (His flying was good, just the bookknowledge was severely lacking) and still busted the checkride. (On the oral part. Surprise, surprise.)
That didn't go down too well.
At this point he was told that his training was terminated, but they worked it out so he got another try at just finishing the commercial, then given a week to read more, then retook the commercial, and this time passed.
He left, but was ultimately allowed to come back to give the CFI phase a go, attended the ground school, but again busted the v-ride. (Didn't know how to contact FSS via a Remote Communication Outlet. Basic PP knowledge. This was just the straw that broke the camel's back.)
This time it was no question about it, he had to leave.

Point being; It can happen, but rarely does. Most people who can't cut it are weeded out during the initial interviews, but sometimes someone does slip through.
The program is hard and demanding, make no mistake, but it's far far from so demanding only super-humans can do it. Average Joe-blo can easilly do it, /if he studies/! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
My friend is the only one I've ever seen kicked out, and I've met many that went through it without any hitch.
The rule of thumb is that if you pink the same v-ride twice you're out, but I've even met one guy who busted the same v-ride twice and two other checkrides, 4 in total, and still allowed to finish the program.
ATP can't and won't guarantee the ratings, that would just be redicilous, but they do make every reasonable effort to get you through.
In short, don't worry. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif If you make it through the interviews and work hard, you shouldn't have any problems, at all. Most of the time bad things happen because some people really don't try. They think they pay the money and get the ratings. Simple as that. And once in a blue moon someone comes along who just weren't ment to be a pilot.
It's rare though, so with hard work anyone can do it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Blah blah blah...

Cheers!
Helge