So...what do you think of this US/HP mess?
- Thread starter CFIscare
- Start date
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I'm only sort of on the outside.
My take is that while it really sucks that a guy hired in 1989 is going to end up junior to a guy hired in 2005, the AAA union sort of shot them selves in the foot. Out of the two extremes it could end up, either straight DOH or 1 for 1 integration (which would put the furloughees and a lot of other junior guys below the junior AWA guy) it pretty much went the way everybody thought it would. ALPA merger policy did away with DOH a few years back (I don't know why) and hence being willing to ONLY accept a DOH merge of the lists (which AAA was) was something that just wasn't going to happen. That left the other option (good for AWA, bad for AAA) and somewhere in between. What ended up happening was somewhere in the middle, although I think it sort of favored AWA. Their career progression isn't going to be stopped/slowed once they can bid either east or west, where as a lot of east guy's progression will be stopped.
However, both sides agreed to go with what the arbitrator said, so for the AAA guys to be complaining doesn't really do much for them.
My take is that while it really sucks that a guy hired in 1989 is going to end up junior to a guy hired in 2005, the AAA union sort of shot them selves in the foot. Out of the two extremes it could end up, either straight DOH or 1 for 1 integration (which would put the furloughees and a lot of other junior guys below the junior AWA guy) it pretty much went the way everybody thought it would. ALPA merger policy did away with DOH a few years back (I don't know why) and hence being willing to ONLY accept a DOH merge of the lists (which AAA was) was something that just wasn't going to happen. That left the other option (good for AWA, bad for AAA) and somewhere in between. What ended up happening was somewhere in the middle, although I think it sort of favored AWA. Their career progression isn't going to be stopped/slowed once they can bid either east or west, where as a lot of east guy's progression will be stopped.
However, both sides agreed to go with what the arbitrator said, so for the AAA guys to be complaining doesn't really do much for them.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
What do I think of the US/HP mess? Just glad the US/HP-DAL hostile takeover wasn't successful!!!
Nick
Well-Known Member
De-identified, why not!
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
I tell you what though, regardless of what is right or wrong, there is a pissed off pilot group east of the Mississippi River.
I was half expecting an outcome like this. However, I expected to see the bottom East guys get SOME credit for their 19 years of service to US. One thing is for certain, I could be a captain for an airline before my dad is...and that is after a stay in the Air Force.
I was half expecting an outcome like this. However, I expected to see the bottom East guys get SOME credit for their 19 years of service to US. One thing is for certain, I could be a captain for an airline before my dad is...and that is after a stay in the Air Force.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Isn't this to be expected though? You guys were bought out by HP. So naturally east guys are going to be stapled to HP's seniority list.
I can't see HP buying you guys, but east guys being senior to HP pilots.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
May I politely ask how much money did HP put into this "buyout"?
This was a straight up merger.
Looks like the first 500 USAirways-East guys did alright, but the rest.... Oooh!
If I had a full-copy of acrobat, I could de-identify it but I don't and I don't want the liability of throwing a bunch of employee numbers and last names out on the net for some evildoer to tinker with.
If I had a full-copy of acrobat, I could de-identify it but I don't and I don't want the liability of throwing a bunch of employee numbers and last names out on the net for some evildoer to tinker with.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
And tiss the story once again...
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
I don't want to get into a flightinfo esque "we saved US" but fact is that you guys were what on your second or third bankruptcy since 9/11 or before.
US east hadn't seen or heard the word profit in how long? Now you're swimming in money (so to speak).
Though they (HP) didn't actually come out of pocket for the merger they got from money from banks and such (similar to how they were gonna pony up for the DL merger)
As for merger, well US east was more like a life boat of survivors with no food or water from the Titanic, floating on the Atlantic for three weeks before rescue by north african slave runners.
They couldn't really say yes or no, because being rescued by slave runners was a fate better than dying by their own devices at sea from dehydration and starvation.
Get my drift...
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
How bad did your father fare?
Mergers are always bad news.
Well, he is just returning form his "vacation", so naturally he is at the bottom of the list.
On the downside, he got recalled to the 76. Now I can't say I fly a bigger plane.
Or, a real plane for that matter. :bandit:Velocipede
New Member
Just another reason for a National Seniority List.
Well, he is just returning form his "vacation", so naturally he is at the bottom of the list.
On the downside, he got recalled to the 76. Now I can't say I fly a bigger plane.
Oh man, no doubt
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
But to be fair, where is all the profits coming from? The east side. Plus, there is no way HP would have been a player in this industry without US.
But Lakefield and Co. did most of the work into putting this merger together.
You have quite the imagination my friend.
But HP was not, and isn't, a strong airline without the east side. Of course, they are quickly bringing down the east side to their level.
Of course, to be fair, I am bias in this discussion.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
But to be fair, where is all the profits coming from? The east side. Plus, there is no way HP would have been a player in this industry without US.
But Lakefield and Co. did most of the work into putting this merger together.
You have quite the imagination my friend.
But HP was not, and isn't, a strong airline without the east side. Of course, they are quickly bringing down the east side to their level.
Of course, to be fair, I am bias in this discussion.
Well, my post wasn't meant to be an attack post (second time in less then 15 mins. I'm having to say that). I can sypathize with your families situation and other east pilots who got hung out to dry.
Having said that the merger made sense for both sides. East wasn't strong on the west coast and west wasn't strong on the east. Together they both are strong like the new AT&T and have a strong national coverage.
Not to step on toes again but US is just really a domestic airline with *some* international coverage. But little at best. It's the hometown airline, so though I don't greatly favor it I don't wish for it's demise.
I do hope however that Parker does grows the airline on it's own right and not via another merger or acquisition. Failure to do so wouldn't be favorable to LCC!
And yes, I am quite creative with my words!
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
Oh don't worry, I didn't take you post as an attack post. I was just voicing my personal views, which were different than yours.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Good, glad you didn't take it as an attack post. In my forth post in this thread I was originally gonna say "regional airline with little international destinations..."
But I decided to be nice!
:laff: