So question about the 1,500 Hour Rule.
- Thread starter ClearedToTakeoff
- Start date
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
In my opinion the 1500 hour rule is pointless. If anything I think cross country PIC time is more important then total time. And even 1500 is too much more like 500 is fine. Accidents can happen at any hour amount. The question is really the quality of training. I think the FAA should look into scenario based training. If a pilot wants to work for an airline the FAA should do what they are doing in europe where you have to pass like 14 exams to get your frozen ATP. Then throw them in a sim for 50 hours of scenario based training. Then only then can they fly for an airline. This sounds alot better then, "oh you need 1500 TT." again in my opinion.
Accidents can happen at any hour amount, surely, but as time progresses a pilot is much likely to blunder into certain types of accidents. Situational awareness and ability to make judgement calls grows a great deal in the time between 500 and 1500 hours.
I'm curious what your current ratings and hours are.
Simulator time is horribly expensive, as it were. Who's gonna pay for that sim time?
1500 hours TT is designed to prevent a 'wet ticket pilot mill' type from jumping out of a flight school with questionable skills and going straight to an airline.
1500 hours isn't really that hard to come by if you try.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I'm trying to do it in gliders, it will probably take me about 20 years...
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
If you only knew . . . LOL.
A
Adler
Guest
It is possible, but I think your example of CitationKid is flawed. I've never met him, but I'd bet he's a hell of a pilot, and a hell of a hustler, but you still need luck. I like to consider myself a good pilot, and I'm a hell of a hustler with countless connections, but the time just isn't there.I got my com MEL at 141 minimums and have been stuck. I got lucky too, I'm logging multi turbine pic in the goose, but that isn't going to get me significant time.
Like I said, I've been extremely lucky. I've been flying with my dad since the days that he'd but a car seat in the plane; I soloed at 16, license at 17 etc.
I don't want to be a CFI, but with only 250 hours (a relatively extensive 250 hours), who's going to hire me for anything else?
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Some years ago, this same argument was being used.
Now, there may be only a few CFI positions available in Michigan, but have you explored the ones in Arizona? Alabama? Utah?
Expand your opportunities, and you'll be surprised!
A
Adler
Guest
I've got schooling to take care of first, so I'm pretty limited in where I can go. Another year to go.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Its all about who you know, I soloed at 16, private at 17, instrument at 18, commercial at 19, commercial multi 19. Here I am 21 years old 2600TT, but no real quantity of turbine PIC, no real quantity of multi-pic. I have connections, but not of them would probably be considered, "connections" in the same way that CK has connections. Maybe the way to look at it is this: flying is a job. The crazy jet driving may come if you so desire, but so far I've seen that every time I try to rush through anything, or get ahead without slogging it out through the ranks, I focus too much on the prize (which is essentially non existent) and not on the fun I'm supposed to be having now. Enjoy your low time period, you'll never get it back again. Enjoy your youth, don't be so focused on your career that you miss out on what's important in life. Fun, family and love.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
There are jobs out there, but you have to move to where they are.
I presume you want to go into the airline business. You're going to move around A LOT as you climb the career ladder and being a CFI is that first step. Quiet in Michigan? Well, get to Texas, California or Arizona. Quiet there? Get out to Florida.
I don't think we'll return to the 2004 thru 2007 era where you had recruiters standing outside of pilot mills like drug pushers competing to sign on freshly-minted C/ME-I's, at least not for a very long time.
Hell, I even gather by the time the 1500 rule gets signed, competitive minimums for regional new hires will at least be 2000 hours anyway.
A
Adler
Guest
Heck no! Well kind of, I want to fly for Seaborne driving their twin otters on floats. They want 1500 anyways
Build up my time and eventually corporate world or boarder patrol.
They're probably all going to want you to have significant flight experience!
Especially in the corporate world. To drive your limousine, do you want a 16 year old who just passed his DMV test last month or a driver who has a few years of driving under his belt?
Especially in the corporate world. To drive your limousine, do you want a 16 year old who just passed his DMV test last month or a driver who has a few years of driving under his belt?
A
Adler
Guest
I realize that, it's my long term goal.
You want my whole plan? Graduate, become a CFI at a water flyings school to build up seaborne's minimums. Fly Seaborne for a while. Move back to the contiguous states. See what happens for another 15 years, go corporate or boarder patrol when I have 20,000 hours. Still fly GA for fun all long the way
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
Lets See, I guess I'll take a stab at this now... I am a 60 hour pilot who just got his Private SEL and about to jump onto the Multi add-on for the Private. I am heavily in favor of this bill for very simple reasons and many of them have been quoted already in this thread... In my 60 hour so far I am comfortable in the Cessna yes, but i know that I am not even 80% competent, much less 100% scenario wise in this a/c. The reason I say so is, I have never had a true engine failure, my altenator has never died on me, and etc. I guess you could say I go to a pilot mill school in a way and by the time I finish all my ratings up to MEI, I will probably have around 300 hours. There were people getting hired with 300 hours a couple years ago and it really does frighten me a bit...
As Sully said, very very few pilots go throughout their flying careers without experiencing certain mishaps, its just the severity that differs. So if you as a low time pilot experience something that your bank account cannot cash, you are out of luck! His statement about hours being something that goes into your bank account and that there will be a need one day for a withdrawal is very true IMO. If anyone thinks that at 500 hours Sully could have did what he did on that cold February day, then I believe that you are a fool! To those who heard how calm he was on the radio during the whole scenario, does that sound like a 500 hour pilot or a multi thousand hour pilot? How many 500 hour pilots would vouch for landing in the river over Teterboro? Sully was aware that this had to be done.
I believe the more hours you have, the more your decision making process changes. I remember my first 20 hours how I would respond to certain scenario's, and now it is totally different, but my thought process now will also be way different in the next thousand hours or so of my career. I also agree with what Doug said about wanting a driver with a fresh license, or a couple of years behind the wheel. Would you knowingly put your parent on an a/c with a Captain who barely has 2k hours and an f/o with 500? If so, I cannot criticize, I just know that in my heart, I love my parents to much to knowingly expose them to such inexperience even if I was the pilot!
Some of you are probably bored with my post already but alot of you know full well that the regionals do not pay very well starting, there are plenty of people waiting for recall, and there is no way in hell that your going to upgrade in 1 year or so like a couple years ago, what is the rush of getting into a jet? Do you have SJS? Do you not enjoy that Cessna, or that piston you are pushing now? I don't understand why one can't find a decent paying job instructing, or something else outside of the regionals? Something that you can actually pay back the loan with and actually eat a little bit more than Ramen Noodles? I don't know, maybe its because I don't plan to fly for an airline, but I would think its common sense to at least build you hours AT YOUR PACE while you can? Maybe I am just a 60 hour pilot who does not know what the hell he is talking about, but this is my Honest Opinion!
As Sully said, very very few pilots go throughout their flying careers without experiencing certain mishaps, its just the severity that differs. So if you as a low time pilot experience something that your bank account cannot cash, you are out of luck! His statement about hours being something that goes into your bank account and that there will be a need one day for a withdrawal is very true IMO. If anyone thinks that at 500 hours Sully could have did what he did on that cold February day, then I believe that you are a fool! To those who heard how calm he was on the radio during the whole scenario, does that sound like a 500 hour pilot or a multi thousand hour pilot? How many 500 hour pilots would vouch for landing in the river over Teterboro? Sully was aware that this had to be done.
I believe the more hours you have, the more your decision making process changes. I remember my first 20 hours how I would respond to certain scenario's, and now it is totally different, but my thought process now will also be way different in the next thousand hours or so of my career. I also agree with what Doug said about wanting a driver with a fresh license, or a couple of years behind the wheel. Would you knowingly put your parent on an a/c with a Captain who barely has 2k hours and an f/o with 500? If so, I cannot criticize, I just know that in my heart, I love my parents to much to knowingly expose them to such inexperience even if I was the pilot!
Some of you are probably bored with my post already but alot of you know full well that the regionals do not pay very well starting, there are plenty of people waiting for recall, and there is no way in hell that your going to upgrade in 1 year or so like a couple years ago, what is the rush of getting into a jet? Do you have SJS? Do you not enjoy that Cessna, or that piston you are pushing now? I don't understand why one can't find a decent paying job instructing, or something else outside of the regionals? Something that you can actually pay back the loan with and actually eat a little bit more than Ramen Noodles? I don't know, maybe its because I don't plan to fly for an airline, but I would think its common sense to at least build you hours AT YOUR PACE while you can? Maybe I am just a 60 hour pilot who does not know what the hell he is talking about, but this is my Honest Opinion!
For a limo driver? Whoever knows where the cheap hoes and blow are. If they're 18 or 81 it really doesn't matter.....the hoes, not the driver.
-mini
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Your options might be limited beyond CFI, but there are some. There's the military, pipeline patrol, Forestry Service work, banner towing, aircraft delivery/ferry flying etc, etc.
The minima might not help you regardless- insurance companies have their hands firmly in the pockets of most aviation employers.
You might just consider that CFI'ing is the door that opens the way to a job you'll like more.
Listen, I probably had the same optimism as you when I was working toward my private in High School. But after working as a CFI for 3 years, still barely able to keep a roof over my head with two jobs, I really don't appreciate some kid who thinks it's easy to just go out and get a flying job that pays the bills in this economy. Even after thousands of hours of dual given, you are still poor and it doesn't matter if you are flying a jet, you just want to fly a plane that pays the bills. Now go enjoy that dinner mommy prepared for you.
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
The point I am trying to make is that the Regionals are not going to pay the bills either, not to mention they are not hiring and won't be for a while... All I am stating is that there are ways to pay the bills without going to a Regional and making probably less than one was while instructing... I never said that its easy to go out there and get a flying job. I am just stating that Regionals are not the only way to whatever one aspires to do in aviation and we have plenty of members on here that are proof of this! btw, before Christmas Eve I had not enjoyed a single meal as I am at a flight school/academy 1000nm away from home, and after tomorrow I won't again for a long while!
SFCC/UND
Well-Known Member
Do you know how difficult it is to get spat mojito off of a LCD screen?
Easy if you use this
