so many mis/uninformed pilots out there

don't get me wrong, I've flown pipe, and aerial, done CFI'ing...dropping the line "holier than thou" is tantamount to "holier than thou" don't you think???

My father was a 6000hr CFI before he got a chance to interview in the late 60's, he used to say the same thing about pilots in the early 90's..."when I was young.."


me see's a theme......
 
Murdoughnut said:
The problem is that in this world of debt, debt, debt, people just aren't realistic about how much a $50k + loan is going to hurt their QOL for the next 30 years or so. $30k for Gulfstream to be an FO in 4 months, or $3k for the CFI to become an FO in 12 months? Only an idiot would choose the prior, but there's no shortage of them.
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:yeahthat:

Yeah, go ahead and put yourself into huge debt because you want that job right now. Go on, do it.

Don't come crying to me when the bills come due and you can't make the payments on them because your paycheck ain't big enough.

Oh, yeah and my favorite KFM quote?

"Take him to...Detroit."
"No, no, no, not Detroit! Anything but Detroit! I'll talk, I'll talk!"
 
Bog said:
Until Microsoft comes out with SurgerySimulator X or LawyerLand 6.0, we'll be the only profession where people claim they'd do it for nothing. Our job is also very closely related to a hobby, and that will forever be the downfall.
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I have to disagree with this quote. Look at professional sports players, I imagine that there are quite a few people that might do their job with relatively simple compensation.

In my mind, the 'downfalls' are in the lack of a conducive environment for aviation labor unions and of course the price/supply of oil, not this SJS crap or PFT.

The year 2000 believe it or not saw the largest consumption of oil ever of 20.3 billion gallons, according to AirInc. In January 1999, the price for a barrel of crude oil was $11, in 2007, it has approached almost $100 a barrel even though today we have never consumed more oil than we did in 2000. When the contract for the United Airlines pilot group was ratified in late 2000, it had surged to $35. But this UA contract gave its pilots a huge increase in pay at the time. The company was just starting to lose money. But management caved in to the union's demands. In my opinion, this was due to the fact that the threat of a strike was very real because it had happened before, as evidenced by a 2 week strike by NW in 1998. When the 10,000 pilot-strong union started their unofficial slowdown (aka safety checklists, not picking up open time), management took notice. When the Bush administration moved in, it seemed like the threat of labor decreased when he forbid AA from striking because of 'national interest' or whatever.

Management, PFT, SJS always make great scapegoats to have for, but I think the entire population as a whole bears the burden just the same. The rebound of the price of oil after 9/11 it seems was due to the lack of enough refineries, an increase in government excise taxes, threatened supply interruptions, an increase of the usage of petroleum products from the exporting countries, and most importantly investor speculation. Speculation alone is reponsible for a rise in at least a $20 hike. An antiquate ATC system can also contribute to the problem. But it boils down to the fact that there is an unrelenting demand for aviation fuel, that is relatively unresponsive to its supply. Jets do not have alternate fuels, and the gasoline-powered engine is the only really acceptable propulsion. Although automobiles can be powered by other alternatives such as electricity, a great deal of crude oil is spent being refined into gasoline for cars. But this problem seems that it has not received the nation's collective attention.

The only escape from the present situation is reducing demand for oil through the development of an alternate means of propulsion; nuclear power, fuel cells, etc. I think the technology can be found if enough consideration is given to finding it. If not, the only thing that we are ever going to find is the end of this industry within 100 years.

But in the meantime, there is no reason for separate pilot groups to be whipsawed against one another bullied around in the fashion that they have been, when they have the opportunity to join forces under the same underlying principle of improving the profession. The ATC controllers that went on strike in the early 80s had to deal with the leverage that Reagan applied with military ATC controllers filling the holes that the civilians left behind. But you cant restaff your entire flight crew without enormous cost. If every captain were able to walk off his/her job at any airline, that airline would not survive unless the their demands were satisfied. If this happened for even one day at only one airline, the conditions for their pilots would be improved forever. If a majority of pilots from a variety of airlines could do this simultaneously, then the slogan of "We're takin it back" would actually mean something for once.
 
surreal1221 said:
See below.
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"Flying is my dream, I'll never wake up. I don't need to put food on a table and support a family. I just want to fly for a living!"
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that is me except i want to be able to support my family, which is 100% the reason why i am still CFI'ing and not at an Regional. OMG it cant be, i make more money flying a PA28 or PA44, how they don't even have turbine engines......:sarcasm:
 
BuickCFI said:
that is me except i want to be able to support my family, which is 100% the reason why i am still CFI'ing and not at an Regional. OMG it cant be, i make more money flying a PA28 or PA44, how they don't even have turbine engines......:sarcasm:
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No kidding. One of my former instructors was recently hired at a regional and at about the same time, his wife was hired as a CFI at a rather large flight school. He tells me that at the regional he actually makes about 2/3 of what his wife now makes as a CFI!
 
jawright said:
No kidding. One of my former instructors was recently hired at a regional and at about the same time, his wife was hired as a CFI at a rather large flight school. He tells me that at the regional he actually makes about 2/3 of what his wife now makes as a CFI!
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it would be about a 2/3 pay cut! i don't see how the regional guys do it. that and i absolutely love what i am doing now :D
 
Bog said:
Until Microsoft comes out with SurgerySimulator X or LawyerLand 6.0, we'll be the only profession where people claim they'd do it for nothing. Our job is also very closely related to a hobby, and that will forever be the downfall.
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Yowzers!!! I think you hit it right on the head here! Well said!
 
berge7f9 said:
In my mind, the 'downfalls' are in the lack of a conducive environment for aviation labor unions and of course the price/supply of oil, not this SJS crap or PFT.

When the contract for the United Airlines pilot group was ratified in late 2000, it had surged to $35. But this UA contract gave its pilots a huge increase in pay at the time. The company was just starting to lose money. But management caved in to the union's demands. In my opinion, this was due to the fact that the threat of a strike was very real because it had happened before, as evidenced by a 2 week strike by NW in 1998.
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Let me just correct your history in this quote. The United pilots did not demand industry leading pay rates. Rather, those rates were a bribe from management to get the Union to acquiesce to the proposed UAL/USAir merger that was on the table at the time. I was at the BoD when all that went down and that was the story the United guys were telling us. And there was no strike threat because the negotiations never got to that point. The bribe was accepted and the contract signed.
 
Anybody feeling a sense of De ja vu with this thread...or perhaps the distinct sound of a broken record playing off in the distance echoing through the Golden Halls of Here we go Again!!

Unions + Greedy Management + Stupid Pilots = Current state of industry....Figure out how to change that equation and I'll get on my knees and bow to your brilliance!

Problem is, no one but a combined group effort of the three amigos listed above has the power to implement radical industry change for the better. The few pilots that actually make sense by how they conduct themselves professionally insofar as what they say and the path they take with their employment are the vast minority any more.

Primary problem...A part from about 10% of the pilot workforce nearly all pilots fall within one of two categories...:

Young and arrogant or Old and Angry..

Since the Old and Angry are the primary teachers/instructors for the industry they tend to perpetuate the state of the biz by passing on their misery to the next generation...And being the next generation mostly consist of the Young and Arrogant...well...one can easily see our dilemma.

I will go on record as saying the Old and Angry certainly have a lot to be angry about...But no one will ever convince me they have the right to pass on that attitude to the newbs...It just serves no point!

The only real solution I see at having any chance of being effective is re-regulating the industry. That path would not come without it's consequences. But I believe it would help the biz in the long run. And I also think the chances of that ever happening is pretty much 0.000...%

So in conclusion.....WE'RE ALL DOOMED....DOOMED I TELL YA!!!!!!!!!!
 
don't you all ever get tired of discussing this topic? Yes we all hate JetU and there are people out there who disagree. Now that thats out of the bag, do you all think we can stop having these threads every week?

Anyways, I misred the thread title and I thought this was going to be about un-uniformed pilots. As in pilots who don't have to wear a uniform. I hope to go all the way through my career without having to wear a uniform, but I'm not sure thats even possible. It'd be interesting to see poll results on how many operators make their pilots wear uniforms (not counting the regionals, who all have to wear them).
 
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