So I went to American Flyers today...

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NaturalFlyer

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Took out a 15 yer loan for $10,000 and this is just for my PPL....

I think I am getting crazy here... I'll still need another $35,000
just to train up to an instructing level...


I make $13,000(after taxes) per year
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On top of that I hear this guy telling me that my loans could get as high as $500 per month; which I'd have no problem with if lived in a box on the street...

Isn't there a way i can get these rendiculous loans differed for more than just 2 years?
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[ QUOTE ]
Took out a 15 yer loan for $10,000 and this is just for my PPL....

I think I am getting crazy here... I'll still need another $35,000
just to train up to an instructing level...


I make $13,000(after taxes) per year
banghead.gif


On top of that I hear this guy telling me that my loans could get as high as $500 per month; which I'd have no problem with if lived in a box on the street...

Isn't there a way i can get these rendiculous loans differed for more than just 2 years?
confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

45 grand for all of your ratings
confused.gif
I think you should shop around at some other flight schools and see can you find something a little cheaper. Maybe in the 32 to 36 grand range. I'm not downing AF or nothing but you probably can find cheaper thats all.

But your student loans should be able to be deferred in six month periods if you are unemployed and diligently seeking employment. By this I mean that you have to register with the unemployment office and take any job that they can find for you. Since you are employed, I'm sure that you can get the monthly payments reduced. It also depends on what kind of loans you are getting. With college loans, you don't have to start paying them money back until eight months after the last semester of your enrollment.
 
I know of another local airport to cleveland where you can get a 172 for $85/hr ($80 block). The 172 is 1974 but does have a Garmin 430 GPS. Using my own numbers for PPL in today's dollars you get:

33.3 hrs DUAL at $30/hr = $999.00
18.7 hrs PIC
52.0 hrs TOTAL at $80/hr (172) = $4160.00

This only totals $5159 for PPL, give or take another 10% would only be around $5700. $10,000 seems like too much. Does that include the written and checkride costs? Still a big difference in costs, just wondering.

PM if you want to discuss further.
 
I'll just come out and say it; you're getting jacked. A private pilots license does not cost that much. Check out some other schools, because there are other places around with financing options that will get you done a lot cheaper than that.
 
Flyers is way overpriced.You can find a better deal elsewhere. How do you plan on re-paying a $ 45,000 loan making only 13,000/year? It's just my opinion but at $13,000/year I would not get into debt over flying. You have many other options that you should look into.
 
Dude, run away from that place right frigging now.

I've always hater that school....they'll get you quick!
 
Where are you in the area? If you going to American Flyers, which is in Akron, you must not be close to the Burke, Cuyahoga County, and Lost Nation group. I'm pretty knowledged on their flight schools and their pricing at those three airports, PM me if you're interested.
 
Okay, so far I have done some phone calls...

So far the best deal for PPL would be North Coast Flyers INC.

The guy said that I could get 55 hours of flight training for $6,000 (PPL)

which is amazing, but then this guy starts to freak me out.... because I can't belive his prices are so cheap.

He told me that an IFR would be $4,000 and then a CFI would be $2,500; Is this guy serious!?
shocked.gif


Heh, my training seems like it just went from $45,000 to $12,500....
insane.gif


Seriously, is this guy not telling me something, or am I just going to be getting pushed down the runway in a cardboard box with wheels?
 
I originally started my training with North Coast Flyers at Burke but recieved some piss poor customer service. Several times I would reserve an aircraft only to find out that someone had crossed my name out of the book and took the plane instead. The prices are fair but I did not have a good experience with them.

In fact my CFI quit NCF because of this and some underlying issues and we both went over to Cleveland Airsports, which is now Airsports Aviation. I was happy with their product but they have recently been bought out by Johnston Aviation and their prices have skyrocketed. I'm currently renting from T and G, which have planes at BKL, CGF, and LNN. It is a flying club but their member rates are pretty good. You can get a 152 for 49/hr. I'm flying with them as a non-member and they give you a good product for what you pay.

My $.02...PM me with any ?'s
 
Is there anything else wrong with North Coast?

With my income, I really really can't afford to be picky. As long as I can get my Flight Certifications for what the man told me on the phone, I'm excited about it. I can swing a $13,000 loan "much" better than a $45,000 loan.
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[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so far I have done some phone calls...

So far the best deal for PPL would be North Coast Flyers INC.

The guy said that I could get 55 hours of flight training for $6,000 (PPL)

which is amazing, but then this guy starts to freak me out.... because I can't belive his prices are so cheap.

He told me that an IFR would be $4,000 and then a CFI would be $2,500; Is this guy serious!?
shocked.gif


Heh, my training seems like it just went from $45,000 to $12,500....
insane.gif


Seriously, is this guy not telling me something, or am I just going to be getting pushed down the runway in a cardboard box with wheels?

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Might want to double check how many hours are included in those prices. Maybe there is some time building that you will need to do to get up to the minimums required for IFR and Commercial, and not all of that time is included in his quote? Also, I don't see anything about the commercial training and checkride, just the CFI?

The PPL for $6000 sounds about right for an FBO rate.

The FBO route should be quite a bit cheaper than the big schools, but I'm still betting that there are more things that need to be added before you can compare $45,000 to $12,500. You might not be asking the questions quite the right way to get the answers you need. If you only asked him what it costs for a PPL, an Instrument ticket, and CFI training, than the $12K is probably correct, but incomplete for your comparison purposes.


Keep digging.
 
Some other questions to ask:

Does that price include books?
What about a headset?
Ground instruction?
Written exam?
Examiner fees?

A lot of schools will leave off the books, written and examiner fees to make the price look more attractive. I'd say figure on between 60-80 hours for the PPL, depending on how often you fly. I know of a FEW people that have done it in less than 60, but not too many. You'll also need 50 hours of x/c time for the instrument, which is probably not in the price. Same with the time building to get you to the 250 total time requirement for the commercial. I'd be very wary of a $12,500 price tag. FBOs are cheaper (generally), but not THAT cheap. I smell some hidden costs.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some other questions to ask:

Does that price include books?
What about a headset?
Ground instruction?
Written exam?
Examiner fees?



[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that North Coast made me purchase a 'pilots kit' which included all of the books, the pts standards, oral exam guide, E6B, logbook, etc. It cost somewhere between 100 and 120 bucks. When I bought it they used ASA's training products.

They had their own headsets but most headsets lying around a flight school aren't going to be the best.

When I was there ground instruction was 35/hr, I believe. However, it has probably raised slightly.
 
My examples are from Portage County (29G) in Ravenna, OH. They can do the PPL and IFR, but not commerical as they dont presently have a complex aircraft. I am going to finish my IFR there, build time for commerical and investigate MEL commerical w/SEL adder. (there have been some posts about that recently).

AKR has American Winds, and they have a complex and a twin. Not sure on prices check their website www.teachme2fly.**com They are setup with the Delta Connection and I think Utah Valley State College for degrees, if that is what you are looking for.

Both of these fields are 25 miles from your local, not the 10 to downtown BKL.

Keep Researching, any questions just ask.
 
If you could go the FBO route instead of the big schools...I'd say a better guesstimate would be closer to 25K up through CFI and that should include all of your time building for instrument and commercial. Definitely a lot chaper than the 45K....I sure as hell wouldn't pay it. Like the others had said...the 12,500 the fella quoted you is more than likely without the 50 hours for Instrument and the remaining time to reach 250 for the commercial. If you add that time in...you'll probably find it to be closer to 25K or so. Just my $.02.
 
Thanks for the input, right now I'm deciding between T&G Flying Club and North Coast Flyers, INC.

I think T&G has been more informative with me. Their prices for PPL was $6000 just like North Coast. However, I can see my prices reasonably hitting $25,000 for the entire deal.

Does it really matter if I get lessons from a flying club?
 
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Does it really matter if I get lessons from a flying club?

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No. Your certificates from the FAA when it's all said and done will look the same as everyone else's.

Let's face it. Most of your learning in aviation doesn't come from getting the certificates and ratings. Those are just hoops to jump through. The real learning and experience comes from using those certificates/ratings in the real world.

It's pretty unfortunate, but there aren't any really good, reasonably priced flight schools in the Cleveland-Akron area, in my opinion.
 
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Does it really matter if I get lessons from a flying club?

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Not at all. Technically, your ratings are printed on the same paper and come from the same office as ATP's, Skymates, Riddle and every other school. What it boils down to is not what school you went to, but how good is the instructor you select.
 
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