So I think I have taken my last flight for a long time

O

O&M

Well-Known Member
Flew from MKE to LAS to SEA last week. Have twin girls on the way, and I am not going to subject them to the hazards of the scanner, or the indignity of a pat down. Looks like it is Amtrak for me from now on. Cheaper, more comfortable, and while not as fast, I've got time. I'm wondering if the airlines have noticed any changes in their bookings since this nonsense began.
 
Agree, no change. The people aren't at their wits end yet, regardless of the supposed outrage over the new TSA techniques. They'll continue to fly because they have to, and the government knows this; hence why they can get away with more and more insanity.
 
You do realize the plan is to extend the body scanners & x-ray machines to trains & buses, right?
 
http://www.floridaattractions.org/en/art/411/

By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY
"Many of the nation's most frequent fliers — those who travel on business and who the airlines depend on for higher-priced fares — say they oppose new security screening methods at airports, and some are so disturbed that they are cutting back on air travel."

and:

Increased airline security a boon to charters,rental cars.


Dec. 18, 2010 |
With commercial airliners more crowded and heightened security measures threatening long delays at airports, private charter jet companies and rental car agencies may be beneficiaries of the growing airport headaches.

A Zogby International poll released recently found that 42% said enhanced pat-down searches and the increased use of full-body scanners by the Transportation Security Administration would cause them to use a different mode of transportation.
Charter jet and rental car trade groups say the switch has already begun.

Demand for charter jets was up 52% in November over the same period last year, said Joe Leader, president of the Air Taxi-Air Charter Association, a trade group for charter jet companies.

"The majority of that can be credited to an increase in business travel and economic recovery, but the TSA security hassle factor has absolutely had an additive effect on air taxi and air charter demand," he said.

Meanwhile, the American Car Rental Association reported an increase of 6% to 11% in rental business in November over the same period last year, an improvement that association Executive Director Sharon Faulkner attributes partly to the growing hassles of air travel.

You can blame the airport headaches on a rebounding economy and new security threats.
As the economy has begun to pick up steam, travelers who stayed close to home during the depths of the recession have begun to fly again, but airlines have resisted adding planes to accommodate the growth.

As a result, airlines are packing their cabins as close to capacity as possible. In August, the nation's airlines flew at 85.3% of capacity, the highest percentage for any August ever, according to the U.S. Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

"No one is getting patted down at rental agencies," Faulkner said.
- Los Angeles Times


and

PASSENGERS STILL PRICE CONSCIOUS


The annual Zagat survey of airline passengers acts as a barometer on the attitude of the flying public.
This year, the survey of 8,000 passengers showed that - to no one's surprise - people continue to be careful about spending when booking flights and taking trips.

For example, when asked to select the factors most important in choosing a flight, 55 percent of the passengers surveyed said ticket price. That was down from 61 percent last year but up from 47 percent in 2007, before the recession.
Airline passengers continue to do what they can to avoid fees for checked luggage. Nearly half (45 percent) said they try to book with airlines that don't charge for checked luggage, and 42 percent said they use frequent flier rewards to get the fees waived, the survey said.
And clearly, the best way to spend less on flying is not to fly. Of those surveyed, 30 percent said they now fly less than they did before the recession, and only 9 percent said they fly more. The other 61 percent said they fly just as often.

and

Poll
USA TODAY ONLINE 12-27-2010
Is TSA Going Too Far With Air Security Measures?

  • 97.72% Yes
  • 2.28% No
 
I enjoy riding the train and do so as much as I can. I've even made Select Plus status twice in a row now. :)
 
Its all about the money. Chertoff (sp) has a piece of the company that produces the scanners. More privatization of government functions.
 
I know Trains are very efficient in Socal and on the East Coast, but out here, trains aren't really an effective way to get from the SF Bay Area to anywhere outside of it. You can fly roundtrip from San Jose to Sacramento on Horizion for about $80 after taxes roundtrip, and the flight is a quick 19 minutes wheels up to wheels down. Amtrack costs about twice what the flight costs, and it makes so many stops and goes so slow, getting from San Jose to Sacramento takes 3-3.5 hours. It's only a 2-2.5 hour drive. I'm NEVER doing that again.

It doesn't help that there are no train stations that offer anything other than CalTrain, which just runs from SF down to SJ and back, on the peninsula. You have to cross the bay or drive down south to San Jose to catch one.
 
Until the people wake up and realize the government does not grant you your rights the people will continue to let this happen to their country. It is your right to decide your mode of transportation, you were born with this right. And to not be violated in your person in order to use it. As we continue to allow this to happen we will observe that this and the last 10 years was just the beginning. The scanners were here way before the underwear bomber who somehow got on an airplane without a passport. They are now using the car version of the ATI at roadblock checkpoints in New York. Soon, there will be no escape!
 
ChasenSFO said:
I know Trains are very efficient in Socal and on the East Coast, but out here, trains aren't really an effective way to get from the SF Bay Area to anywhere outside of it. You can fly roundtrip from San Jose to Sacramento on Horizion for about $80 after taxes roundtrip, and the flight is a quick 19 minutes wheels up to wheels down. Amtrack costs about twice what the flight costs, and it makes so many stops and goes so slow, getting from San Jose to Sacramento takes 3-3.5 hours. It's only a 2-2.5 hour drive. I'm NEVER doing that again.

It doesn't help that there are no train stations that offer anything other than CalTrain, which just runs from SF down to SJ and back, on the peninsula. You have to cross the bay or drive down south to San Jose to catch one.
Click to expand...

This is a problem all around the US. Your situation is worse because of the terrain surrounding the SF Bay area. Only through huge subsidies and incentives were they able to do that rail connection in the first place.

I agree with your point on the stops. Back when rail was popular they had "flyers" that would fly between major cities and not hit every little town on the way. We need to bring those back along with high speed rail between large areas. Combine that with deregulation and remove Amtrak and you'll see more competition again. At least it would be more accessible.
 
darthpanda said:
I agree with your point on the stops. Back when rail was popular they had "flyers" that would fly between major cities and not hit every little town on the way. We need to bring those back along with high speed rail between large areas. Combine that with deregulation and remove Amtrak and you'll see more competition again. At least it would be more accessible.
Click to expand...

Not a chance of large scale rail service working within the United States unless a dedicated rail network is built. Freight companies have no reason to fund the development of high speed rails, and even if they did, they would have no reason to use it, due to the nature of freight.
 
ChasenSFO said:
I know Trains are very efficient in Socal and on the East Coast, but out here, trains aren't really an effective way to get from the SF Bay Area to anywhere outside of it. You can fly roundtrip from San Jose to Sacramento on Horizion for about $80 after taxes roundtrip, and the flight is a quick 19 minutes wheels up to wheels down. Amtrack costs about twice what the flight costs, and it makes so many stops and goes so slow, getting from San Jose to Sacramento takes 3-3.5 hours. It's only a 2-2.5 hour drive. I'm NEVER doing that again.

It doesn't help that there are no train stations that offer anything other than CalTrain, which just runs from SF down to SJ and back, on the peninsula. You have to cross the bay or drive down south to San Jose to catch one.
Click to expand...

It's definitely not twice as much to take Amtrak from Sacramento to San Jose. It's $34 one-way for the just over 3 hour trip. And that is a walk-up fare too, downtown to downtown. And that is just to travel the entire distance of that route. Most people might only go from Sacramento to Oakland or Martinez or something like that. Its constant on and off by passengers. It's pretty to hard to fly to places like Davis, or Merced or something as well. Plus there is a cross-platform transfer at Richmond to BART trains into San Fran itself. That or you can take the coach bus which meets each train at Emeryville which takes you over the Bay Bridge. The coach bus transfer is included in the fare.

It may only be a 19 minute flight but you gotta include the trip to the airport, check-in time, etc. It probably makes the trip more than two hours door to door.

But thats what makes it great. The ability to choose between driving, flying, training, or bussing. I wish we had more options where I live.
 
darthpanda said:
I agree with your point on the stops. Back when rail was popular they had "flyers" that would fly between major cities and not hit every little town on the way. We need to bring those back along with high speed rail between large areas. Combine that with deregulation and remove Amtrak and you'll see more competition again. At least it would be more accessible.
Click to expand...

Well to be fair, the railroads were deregulated back in 1980. Amtrak was created in 1970 because the railroads could no longer make profits at operating passenger trains; mainly because huge subsidies were (are still) going toward highways, making it impossible for the passenger services to compete. Eliminating Amtrak wouldn't open anything up to competition. The freight railroads would simply take back their trackage and never let a passenger train on them again. The only way to do that is if all the trackage were publicly owned, which will never happen with the freight railroads.
 
What makes anyone think that if rail travel became as widespread and popular as air travel the TSA wouldn't put their grubby hands all over the passengers choosing this method as well?
 
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