So I hear Pickett signs are gonna come out....

A

ATA_victim

New Member
So I hear from my "IAD" insider that there will be an upcoming strike for the FA's and Rampers coming sometime mid summer....anyone hear rumors of this too? Its gonna effect a Major Airline..

You read it here first....
 
So, not trying to be a smartass here, but what happens to their pensions if they strike and United goes under?
 
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So, not trying to be a smartass here, but what happens to their pensions if they strike and United goes under?

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Their pensions are already gone, United struck an agreement with the PBGC about a week ago to terminate their pension plans...
 
I think the workers thought is "I have already given as much as I can give and if they take anymore I may as well quit and find another job so they need to figure out another way to be profitable... Either they figure it out now and we survive or they don't and I am out of a job". At least thats kinda the gist I got from some UA folks.

Can't say I blame them really.
 
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Bankrupt United Airlines reached an agreement with U.S. pension insurers on Friday to terminate four employee retirement plans that are underfunded by nearly $10 billion, Reuters reported. Under the deal, which requires court approval, the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. will assume plans covering 120,000 current and former employees and retired workers at United. These include pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, ground workers and other employees. If approved by the bankruptcy court, the termination would be the largest in PBGC history. "We think this is a very important agreement," said Jake Brace, United's chief financial officer. "We wanted to resolve (the pension issues) mutually with the unions. The door remains open if there are other pension solutions."

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Sounds to me like the plan still exists, it might just not be as good as it was before.....
 
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Their pensions are already gone, United struck an agreement with the PBGC about a week ago to terminate their pension plans...

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This = criminal and the judges that allow this should be drawn and quartered.












Then peed on.
mad.gif
 
Still needs court approval, and they aren't being TERMINATED, just re-assigned to a government provider.
 
Two words: peed on.
nana2.gif


Yeah after I read the quote rom the article I gathered as much but the folks over at U.S Air lost 'em.
 
Well, here's the catch. You get the shaft big time if you're a pilot and your pension goes to the PBGC. I've heard the cap is around $50K a year for the PBGC.

So, if you're a pilot, and live for say, 20 years after you retire, that can literally be a million dollar difference.

Yeah, I can understand why the United guys are pissed. Take a million bucks away from me and I'd be pissed, too!
 
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This = criminal and the judges that allow this should be drawn and quartered.

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I'm curious as to what you think the alternative is. As I'm sure you know airlines used to just liquidate in bankrutcy. Talk about a hit to your wages and retirement! Now airlines are allowed to stay in bankruptcy for years trying to find a way out. I don't even know if UAL makes it if their pensions go to PBGC. But what is the alternative? You can't pay for things you don't have the money for. Right now there's a bill to allow airlines to put off payments to their pension plans well into the future. ALPA and other unions support it, even though it means that if this industry doesn't make a huge turn around that these pension plans will be even more under funded in the future. This is an admission that the plans can't be supported right now by current revenues.

But this is nothing people. GM and probably Ford are in big trouble. And while UAL is the larget pension default to date, it will be dwarfed by a default by GM. I was just reading that GM has more pension and health care costs in it's cars than steel costs. They have 2.5 retirees for every working employee and their pension and health costs are swamping them. That along with the fact that they have done a poor job desiging and marketing cars, and they are in big big trouble.

So what can a judge do when they show up in his court? Rule, "I don't care if there is no money to pay this, just pay it!"

]
 
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Their pensions are already gone, United struck an agreement with the PBGC about a week ago to terminate their pension plans...

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It's not up to UAL and the PBGC to make that call. A pension plan can only be terminated by a bankruptcy judge.

“The deal must be approved by Judge Eugene Wedoff of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Illinois. Wedoff is expected to rule on May 4.”

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/050427/airlines_united_pensions.html?.v=3
 
The alternative is to ride these airlines BEFORE they go bankrupt.

It is illegal to underfund pension plans. These plans didn't go underfunded the day these guys went bankrupt - they were in trouble well before te airline declared bankruptcy.

Hell Delta's fund is underfunded right now to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. But the ATA lobbies (pays off) the right folks and the govm't. turns a blind eye.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The alternative is to ride these airlines BEFORE they go bankrupt.

It is illegal to underfund pension plans. These plans didn't go underfunded the day these guys went bankrupt - they were in trouble well before te airline declared bankruptcy.

Hell Delta's fund is underfunded right now to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. But the ATA lobbies (pays off) the right folks and the govm't. turns a blind eye.

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I know at my airline ALPA kept an eye on the pension fund. I'm sure the same thing went on at other carrers. Also these funds are subject to outside audits. Of course the funds were just fine when the underlying assets were going up like a rocket. And despite assurances by ALPA not long ago, it turns out that Delta's is now "under-funded".

And instead of "riding" them, the unions are up on capitol hill begging congress to let them be more under-funded. Anyway you cut it, these huge pension obligations are one of the factors that has doomed legacy carriers in the new revenue and competitive environment. And it's coming to other industries soon.
 
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It is illegal to underfund pension plans.

[/ QUOTE ]It is and it isn't. There are very complicated formulae set forth under federal law for funding pension plans. It is illegal to fund a pension plan "under" the legal requirements. However, the funding formulae assume a number of things, including a particular rate of return on pension fund assets and that the employer will be around to continue to pay into the fund. So, when the stock market takes a nose-dive and the employer goes bankrupt at the same time, it almost invariably leaves the pension underfunded . . . and legally so.

If you don't like that, go talk to your member of Congress about getting the funding requirements strengthened. Of course, that's not going to happen because what everyone else (including ALPA and most other unions) wants to do is reduce the pension funding requirements in the hope that they can keep pension plans at GM, Ford, the airlines, etc. alive. Nevermind what it does to the pension plan's ability to pay future liabilities.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This = criminal and the judges that allow this should be drawn and quartered.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious as to what you think the alternative is. As I'm sure you know airlines used to just liquidate in bankrutcy. Talk about a hit to your wages and retirement! Now airlines are allowed to stay in bankruptcy for years trying to find a way out. I don't even know if UAL makes it if their pensions go to PBGC. But what is the alternative? You can't pay for things you don't have the money for. Right now there's a bill to allow airlines to put off payments to their pension plans well into the future. ALPA and other unions support it, even though it means that if this industry doesn't make a huge turn around that these pension plans will be even more under funded in the future. This is an admission that the plans can't be supported right now by current revenues.

But this is nothing people. GM and probably Ford are in big trouble. And while UAL is the larget pension default to date, it will be dwarfed by a default by GM. I was just reading that GM has more pension and health care costs in it's cars than steel costs. They have 2.5 retirees for every working employee and their pension and health costs are swamping them. That along with the fact that they have done a poor job desiging and marketing cars, and they are in big big trouble.

So what can a judge do when they show up in his court? Rule, "I don't care if there is no money to pay this, just pay it!"

]

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According to Business Week, GM pays out $1600 in benefits and pensions to retirees for every car they sell. That is astounding!

Not to steer off topic but the only way GM will survive is by concessions from the unions. GM can't even close a single factory without several hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation to the union(s).
 
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