So...Does Experience Matter?

Does experience matter?

  • No. You're either born Bob Hoover or you're not. It's all about GENES!

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Not really. Once you know how to fly an airplane, it's all about what you're trained to do,.

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Yeah, sorta. The more you've seen, the better you'll be in a tight spot, but training is paramount

    Votes: 51 42.9%
  • Obviously. You can take all the classes you like, but until you've pooped your Pampers...amateur

    Votes: 53 44.5%
  • I don't know what you're talking about, I'm a WARLORD!

    Votes: 13 10.9%

  • Total voters
    119
I will say this - I do not believe that a pilot with 300 hours, and a pilot with 1,500 hours - that both went to through the same training are equivalent. The 1,500 hour guy is probably better. That's where the difference in training comes in. I think a 500 hour military guy is probably "better" at complex situations than a 1.500 hour regional guy.

Believe me I agree with what you're saying, I try and stay neutral in this argument, there's just so many different ways one could argue this, regardless I think that most people can agree in the end that it comes down to the individual, not just the hours.
 
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I would expect that it's a mix, although you couldn't put a 10,000 hour airline guy into an F-15 and expect him to perform what was needed most likely any quicker than a new guy (thinking about what Bunk, Hacker and AMG have said about flying being one aspect that is secondary to being a weapons operator). I don't think even that UPS Airbus guy, with his hours and hefty paycheck could spend a day working an AT-802 like T-cart does in the rice fields (although T-cart probably has more total time - either way, you get the drift). So, the kind of flying you're doing, mixed with training, mixed with experience in some recipe creates the stew. Ask yourself, Boris at 7,000 or Bumblebee at 4,000 or Kellwolf at 5,000 - could you fly a P-51 or F4U as successfully as the sub-300 hour WW2 guys? How long would it take you from your starting point now (with your hours) to become accomplished at flying the Mustang or Corsair, using it as a weapon effectively and not balling them up on a go-around or a landing? I think it would be less than the 250 or so hours that the WW2 guys had, but how much less?

When a pilot fly's a certain aircraft, flying specific profile's, missions, etc, they do become very good at what they do. However, they may not be very good at other aspects of flying but can probably pick it up quickly given the chance. For example, the pilots that fly BFM down here in Kingsville do it day in and day out. Matter of fact, 95% of what they fly is BFM. Then they go do a NATOPS check and suck at certain things, like PA's, aero, etc. Given a few flights, I'm sure they could master it. What I do 90% of the time is formation flying, most of it as a lead in section and division. I went out and did a NATOPS flight not so long ago and for example, performing the the squirrel cage, I was just awful. Again, this is a small part of flying but it shows how an experienced pilot can be less than par depending.

Now take that same experienced Goshawk pilot and put him in a C172, Seminole, whatever, it may take some time to develop the flying skills to master that aircraft. However, being used to inverted flight, aggressive flying, formation flying, maybe having an engine flame out a time or two, brings confidence and experience to the equation. Due to that experience, the pilot's decision making, adaptability, SA, etc are all enhanced...more so than an inexperienced pilot.

I have 3000 hours, in both jet and multi-engine prop, I've lost a motor at 100'AGL, had a pitch locked prop, a motor not relight, had to shut down a few, have over 500 carrier landings (left and right seat) so it has enhanced my experience but put me into an RG Cessna and expect me to fly it well, like the CFI who has been instructing for hundreds of hours, it's going to take me some time. I wish I were that good but I'm not. But I have the confidence that given time, I will be good with that aircraft due to my experience and background.

The most difficult flying I've had to do was coming back to the 45 as I had not flown a jet in 14 years and had been out of the cockpit for over 18 months. The syllabus is the same for all IP's in the T-45A/C, you get 20 flights, about 33 hours. You do it or don't and for most of it, I felt like I was hanging on the slats. My point here is it's tough for more most pilots to go from one platform to another, at least if you're average like me. I always ask my students, you know why most of us are average? Cause there are days we are plumbers and days when are Blues. Things that help us are experience, confidence, quality and quantity of training.
 
As a very lowtime pilot myself I don't have much experience, but thats not to say that I haven't scared myself, learned from it and have become a safer pilot.

All pilots get scared... It doesn't matter how much time you have. It's just fear of the unknown due to lack of experience. It's how the experience is delivered is what we try to control. Having it smack you upside the head where death is a likely result, is what we try to avoid with good training. It's experience that helps you get over the initial fear and what allows you identify and resolve the situation.

Common fears at all pilot levels:

Students: Stalls, Getting lost, Talking to ATC

Private Pilots under 200: MVFR Weather, Stalls, Wind

Low Time Commercial/IFR: Ice, Thunderstorms, LIFR, CFIT

High time Commercial/ATP: FBO Running out of cookies
 
I_don't_want_to_live_on_this_planet_anymore.jpg
 
All pilots get scared... It doesn't matter how much time you have. It's just fear of the unknown due to lack of experience. It's how the experience is delivered is what we try to control. Having it smack you upside the head where death is a likely result, is what we try to avoid with good training. It's experience that helps you get over the initial fear and what allows you identify and resolve the situation.

Common fears at all pilot levels:

Students: Stalls, Getting lost, Talking to ATC

Private Pilots under 200: MVFR Weather, Stalls, Wind

Low Time Commercial/IFR: Ice, Thunderstorms, LIFR, CFIT

High time Commercial/ATP: FBO Running out of cookies
To be fair the FBO running out of cookies/popcorn/coffee has been a concern since my private.
Now it's an operation consideration though. Holy hell the catering place wasn't open the other day, I thought someone was going to die over it.
 
Would anybody argue that a surgeon that has done 5 surgeries is as experienced as one that has done 500 surgeries?

I don't think anyone can argue that - 5 vs 500 is literally "more experience." Everyone seems real fixated on how much experience. I think an item of equal importance is avoiding complacency.

There are 20,000 hr pilots that have royally F'ed up like a n00b, just like there are 25 year surgeons that have done likewise.
 
All pilots get scared... It doesn't matter how much time you have. It's just fear of the unknown due to lack of experience. It's how the experience is delivered is what we try to control. Having it smack you upside the head where death is a likely result, is what we try to avoid with good training. It's experience that helps you get over the initial fear and what allows you identify and resolve the situation.

Common fears at all pilot levels:

Students: Stalls, Getting lost, Talking to ATC

Private Pilots under 200: MVFR Weather, Stalls, Wind

Low Time Commercial/IFR: Ice, Thunderstorms, LIFR, CFIT

High time Commercial/ATP: FBO Running out of cookies

Personally, I think there should be a healthy amount of fear/paranoia about these things always.
 
I don't think anyone can argue that - 5 vs 500 is literally "more experience." Everyone seems real fixated on how much experience. I think an item of equal importance is avoiding complacency.

There are 20,000 hr pilots that have royally F'ed up like a n00b, just like there are 25 year surgeons that have done likewise.

I think in a literal sense you can, because 500 is greater than 5.
 
There, fixed it for you! :D I think this topic came up not that long ago.
Indeed. Even a hardened freight dog like me is genuinely concerned in pretty much anything that isn't VMC. :) I credit the fact that I don't any "stories" because of this. ;)
 
I remember the first time I realized the gap in my experience. I was a Solo Student. I cranked up my rented 152 and went out to practice patterns. When the engine ran just a little too rough during the mag check, I thought "What would Joe do?" My instructor, Joe, was the 1995 WA state instructor of the year, and had over 5000 hours of Dual given.

I ran the engine hot, leaned it and cleaned it, then took a 3000 ft runway to launch out over tall trees at the edge of the field. When the engine rolled back to what I knew to be a descent power setting just as the remaining runway slid behind me, I thought I was dead. The trees looming in front of me seemed to silently agree. Prior training kicked in, and obviously I lived, but the experience gained taught me a lesson I never forgot. You can train with someone, but you won't know what they know just by doing what they do.

You cannot borrow experience, and you cannot train to make up the lack.
Some things you just have to learn on your own.. and being in too much of a rush getting to the point where those things can pile up on you just might kill you.
 
I remember the first time I realized the gap in my experience. I was a Solo Student. I cranked up my rented 152 and went out to practice patterns. When the engine ran just a little too rough during the mag check, I thought "What would Joe do?" My instructor, Joe, was the 1995 WA state instructor of the year, and had over 5000 hours of Dual given.

I ran the engine hot, leaned it and cleaned it, then took a 3000 ft runway to launch out over tall trees at the edge of the field. When the engine rolled back to what I knew to be a descent power setting just as the remaining runway slid behind me, I thought I was dead. The trees looming in front of me seemed to silently agree. Prior training kicked in, and obviously I lived, but the experience gained taught me a lesson I never forgot. You can train with someone, but you won't know what they know just by doing what they do.

You cannot borrow experience, and you cannot train to make up the lack.
Some things you just have to learn on your own.. and being in too much of a rush getting to the point where those things can pile up on you just might kill you.
There is that saying by some guy. "Superior judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement" or something like that. :)
 
There is that saying by some guy. "Superior judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement" or something like that. :)

I learned it the hard way. By the time I made it back into the office, I had to sit down because my legs wouldn't stop shaking. The slow-burn possibility of death was a new one.

Years later, somewhere around 350 hours total time, I decided to take my trusty Beech Duchess and just 'stick my nose it and take a look.. it doesn't look convective...' Yeah.. Another lesson not to be learned with paying customers on board.
 
I learned it the hard way. By the time I made it back into the office, I had to sit down because my legs wouldn't stop shaking. The slow-burn possibility of death was a new one.

Years later, somewhere around 350 hours total time, I decided to take my trusty Beech Duchess and just 'stick my nose it and take a look.. it doesn't look convective...' Yeah.. Another lesson not to be learned with paying customers on board.
Yeah, I took a 210 through yellow one night and thought for sure the wing was going to break off. Who the hell cares about yellow radar returns right? Yeah, well sometimes when a storm forms in dry air yada yada yada... :bang:
 
If one were operating on my heart, I would rather have the heart surgeon with 5 heart surgeries than one who performed 500 appendectomies.

If we really want to make it a legitimate comparison to aviators, we'd have to say that the appendectomy surgeon had been subsequently retrained and fully qualified to perform heart surgeries.

In other words, he'd be carrying the experience learned having cut into, worked on, and sewn up 495 more patients than the 5-operation heart surgeon.

That's what we're talking about with respect to the difference between airmanship and motor skills; anyone on the experience scale can go to an RJ course and learn how to run checklists, flip switches, and program FMSs (motor skills), but lesser experienced pilots don't have the airmanship to back up the decisions they're inevitably going to have to make.
 
If one were operating on my heart, I would rather have the heart surgeon with 5 heart surgeries than one who performed 500 appendectomies.
You...you mean...not all aeronautical experience is equivalently valuable for all tasks?
 
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