So about that Delta + $1

kellwolf said:
SWA gets a pass in my book because they require YOU to buy the type, but they pay a better wage than just about anyone else flying the same equipment.


You capitalized the word "you", as if there is a benefit to this requirement. What is the benefit to the pilot paying for his own type, when no other major requires it?
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mwflyer said:
kellwolf said:
SWA gets a pass in my book because they require YOU to buy the type, but they pay a better wage than just about anyone else flying the same equipment.


You capitalized the word "you", as if there is a benefit to this requirement. What is the benefit to the pilot paying for his own type, when no other major requires it?
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For me, the benefit is the $10-20 more an hour they pay their first year FOs. I can pay the $6000-7000 for the type, or I can earn $6000-7000 less the first year. Call me nuts, but it seems like a wash to me.
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kellwolf said:
For me, the benefit is the $10-20 more an hour they pay their first year FOs. I can pay the $6000-7000 for the type, or I can earn $6000-7000 less the first year. Call me nuts, but it seems like a wash to me.
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You and I are in agreement of basically 99% of issues around here, except for this one. Slippery slopes and such, I am damn surprised other carriers haven't jumped on this bandwagon. You can bet, they wouldn't be giving that 6k back in pay either.

Cost of doing business = they should pay for it.
 
bike21 said:
You and I are in agreement of basically 99% of issues around here, except for this one. Slippery slopes and such, I am damn surprised other carriers haven't jumped on this bandwagon. You can bet, they wouldn't be giving that 6k back in pay either.

Cost of doing business = they should pay for it.
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Eh, if they weren't giving the $6K back in pay, well, then they'd be further down on my list of places to apply. Like on the bottom. Admittedly, it might be leftover Kool-Aid in the system from when I worked at SWA before, but I don't really see it as THAT big of a deal when you look at it in an opportunity cost fashion. I could go to CAL for $20-some odd dollars an hour less and no health benefits for the first 6 months, but I get my free type rating. Or, I could pay $6k, go to SWA and recoup the money I spent within the first year there. First 6 months if you play the "drop my schedule/pick up open time" game. I'm not out to change anyone's minds. Too much of that goes on as it is. :) Just giving a different thought perspective on the situation.
 
kellwolf said:
mwflyer said:
For me, the benefit is the $10-20 more an hour they pay their first year FOs. I can pay the $6000-7000 for the type, or I can earn $6000-7000 less the first year. Call me nuts, but it seems like a wash to me.
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I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but i want your opinion on this. Like bike, I feel that it is a slippery slope, and I cant believe that more airlines haven't gone to it, with the way that guys flock to SWA.

Like Todd has said, SWA is on a non-concessionary contract, they used to not have top 737 pay, and still required the type. Was it ok then? What if the legacies get that pay back on the new contracts? When in your eyes does paying for the type become a disadvantage?
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mwflyer said:
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but i want your opinion on this. Like bike, I feel that it is a slippery slope, and I cant believe that more airlines haven't gone to it, with the way that guys flock to SWA.

Like Todd has said, SWA is on a non-concessionary contract, they used to not have top 737 pay, and still required the type. Was it ok then? What if the legacies get that pay back on the new contracts? When in your eyes does paying for the type become a disadvantage?
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It becomes a disadvantage (for me) when you lose money paying for the type. For example, let's say XJT required you to buy a type on the Embraer as grounds for employment. While they do have some of the best pay at the regional level, it's not gonna make up for the difference of even going to Pinnacle that first year. At the end of the day, you're bank account is gonna be better off going to Pinnacle and making less than going to XJT and making more money but having to shell out for a type rating.

I know legacies in the past had higher wages than SWA, however, that's not the hiring environment we're looking at. In the past, Comair and most other regionals either didn't pay while in training or they required you pay for it. That's changed as well. Why? I'd guess no one really wanted to go in the hole (even more than we all already are) for their training. I'm still waiting for the legacies to "take it back." When that day comes, I'll re-evaluate how I feel about paying for a type and going to SWA. Right now, however, it seems like a better deal financially (for me) to pay for the type and go to SWA.

Ultimately, guys flock to SWA because it's stable and they treat their pilots very well compared to everyone else. I think THAT is why people really want to work there. I know it's why I do, and I remember how I was treated as a lowly ramper there. Like I said, maybe it's residual Kool-Aid. If SWA dropped their wages or the other legacies that type their FOs raised theirs to the level that buying a type at SWA would be negativel financially, I'd re-think my position. Hopefully, that day WILL come around. Right now, in this environment, it's gonna be a LOOOOONG up hill battle that I really haven't seen a lot of signs of occurring.
 
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