Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Screw it. I had always budget myself under the 1999 CBA. Any TA was a bonus.
I'd rather be standalone than take Mesaba's furlough burden. And what good is a TA if my future career prospects stall out because of Mesaba?
SLI and furlough...
- Thread starter SpiceWeasel
- Start date
Screw it. I had always budget myself under the 1999 CBA. Any TA was a bonus.
I'd rather be standalone than take Mesaba's furlough burden. And what good is a TA if my future career prospects stall out because of Mesaba?
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Play nice in the sandbox. You don't want to be the only RJ pilot in the world that has to get current in the sim.
Didn't they teach CRM at the CRJ "course"?
Then again, you might need a drug screen for probable cause.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You know what, I've become they way I've become largely due to the sickening "my **** don't stink" attitude at Mesaba, and MANY Mesaba pilots came into negotiations with a "We'll show you Pinnacle guys how it's done....." attitude. And once we got a JCBA, many had a "I told you so!" attitude.
Save it. I honestly don't care. We got a new JCBA, ok, good. BUT, if we didn't get a new JCBA, I'd be perfectly fine under the old contract. All of my finances were based on that old contract, and my finances were calculated with the old contracts payrates. So any bonus money or new contract pay increase was just icing on the cake. Now, my disposable income has increased.
BUT. Keep in mind, my future career prospect at Pinnacle looked great. With a continuous stream of 20-30 upgrades a month since last August, my number would have been up later this year. Now, the SLI will change all that, and for the worst. Because there's just no fair way to integrate us all. At Pinnacle, we were not losing any aircraft. All we were losing were pilots. Attriton. We finally had movement. We finally started hiring last year. Finally. Now, all the fruits of our labor will be "distributed" in a typical socialist manner (what's best for the "overall" group). So yes, I'm a little peeved. Mesaba guys who would have otherwise hit the street once the Saabs were gone will get a chance to upgrade into Pinnacle left seats.
And what am I supposed to say? Thank you Mesaba guys for getting me a new contract? No way, take your JCBA and pound it. I'd rather be under a 1999 CBA with good career progression prospects (as is currently the case at Pinnacle) than take a gamble of a binding arbitration award of a SLI with Mesaba and Colgan.
We'll see about that. Just watch... I'm gonna end up getting a Colgan guy who's junior to me, go senior to me in a relative integration, and take an upgrade on the RJ with 0 RJ time and be my CA with less time than me in this industry, and less time at our collective airline.
Captain Taylor, the company had NOTHING to do with one list. That was our union's demand. The company wanted the RJs at Pinnacle and the props at Colgan, with the Colgan name disappearing and Mesaba name staying. They (the company) could have cared less about one list or two lists or three.
The Pinnacle F/A union, USW, took a hard stand (with a real set of balls) and said that the jets will come over to Pinnacle, doesn't mean we gotta bring the FAs over too. And if we do, they will come as newhires (read: bottom of our FA list). WOW! Talk about taking a stand for OUR own FAs! I'd respect our union more if we took a hard stand. My dues pay so my union can best represent me, and us as a pilot group. They should have taken a hard stand like the FA union did.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Some of us have been through one (or more) integrations before. Some that have have even posted in response to those of you that are going through your first integration.
Instead of listening to those perspectives, you are making asinine assumptions.
How many SLI arbitrations have you been through, or read the arbitrator's findings for?
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
I think you are getting bad info somewhere. The company needed one list to move all the jets from Mesaba to Pinnacle. Without one list(JCBA) and with Mesaba's contract language the jets could only move one way and that is to Mesaba.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
This is not true. The jets could move from Mesaba to Pinnacle without "one list" being in place beforehand.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Do you work for a regional or a major? If I was a NWA guy, or a DAL guy before the integration, I wouldn't have cared. No matter what, I'd already at my 'final' stop. My schedule might suck with some loss in relative seniority, or it may take me longer to hold a spot I'd want. But at the end of the day, I'm at where I want to be at, with no pressure to move on. No pressure of upgrading. No pressure of building up PIC time.
At a regional, I need to upgrade. SIC time is worthless, no major will look at you unless you have an ATP and PIC time (unless you have a chest and have XX chromosomes, if you get my drift). And ANY integration that hinders from me getting what I need to move on to a major...... well, you get my point.
And yes, I've read arbitrator findings. The most recent I read was the Republic, Frontier, Lynx, MidEx. I understood where the arbitrator was coming from in that one. I can only hope to get something like that which is fair. I will say, however, that the Republic pilots made out best in that integration. In that sense, I hope Pinnacle pilots will make out best, for the reasons already stated about Mesaba and Colgan.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
LOL. Chair-oh-key, you are great fun. You are. In about a month your dreams, nightmares or status quo will come true.
Have a beer or three and go piss in the wind with a full bladder. If you say to yourself, "Why would I do that jynxy?" I would reply, "Why are you doing it right now online?"
By the way, our "attitude" at Mesaba may not be the "my **** don't stink". Guys like you are so confusing. Like right now I'm saying, "This is my future captain or first officer, or rep? What planet are you from?" I'm not trying to act superior, but I am trying not to laugh.
Have a beer or three and go piss in the wind with a full bladder. If you say to yourself, "Why would I do that jynxy?" I would reply, "Why are you doing it right now online?"
By the way, our "attitude" at Mesaba may not be the "my **** don't stink". Guys like you are so confusing. Like right now I'm saying, "This is my future captain or first officer, or rep? What planet are you from?" I'm not trying to act superior, but I am trying not to laugh.
Had PNCL not brought colgan in do you really think that some other company wouldn't have saw the potential colgan was bringing with their Q's?
Similarly, how long do you think it would have taken another company to say yes to Delta's deal which essentially was "we will give you mesaba and all you need to do is give us some of their profit for the next few years and we will call it even"? Do you not think that their company culture and profit will provide for a better life for yourself?
I don't know how long it would take you to upgrade at pinnacle without any integration but I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that it won't change for the worse. The only company that will go backwards on the upgrade timeline will be colgan. Things are going to get really crazy at PNCL real soon. Just sit back and enjoy the ride
Similarly, how long do you think it would have taken another company to say yes to Delta's deal which essentially was "we will give you mesaba and all you need to do is give us some of their profit for the next few years and we will call it even"? Do you not think that their company culture and profit will provide for a better life for yourself?
I don't know how long it would take you to upgrade at pinnacle without any integration but I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that it won't change for the worse. The only company that will go backwards on the upgrade timeline will be colgan. Things are going to get really crazy at PNCL real soon. Just sit back and enjoy the ride
jynxyjoe
Queso King
MY FELLOW PINNACOLABIANS!!!
ASK NOT WHAT THE ARBITRATOR CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR STRESS LEVEL!
Guys, we can't control what's going on with the SLI. We can't. We just can't. We don't know what's going to happen, it doesn't even sound like we will know when. The ISL will come, things will shuffle around, peoples feelings are going to get hurt, and then we've got to work together.
This is out of our hands.
ASK NOT WHAT THE ARBITRATOR CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR STRESS LEVEL!
Guys, we can't control what's going on with the SLI. We can't. We just can't. We don't know what's going to happen, it doesn't even sound like we will know when. The ISL will come, things will shuffle around, peoples feelings are going to get hurt, and then we've got to work together.
This is out of our hands.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Without PNCL, Colgan has no Q's.
Ill pose to you the same question you just quoted:
Had PNCL not brought colgan in do you really think that some other company wouldn't have saw the potential colgan was bringing with their Q's?
I get that colgan wasnt getting them without PNCL's financing but if it wasn't PNCL doing the financing it would have been someone else.
Had PNCL not brought colgan in do you really think that some other company wouldn't have saw the potential colgan was bringing with their Q's?
I get that colgan wasnt getting them without PNCL's financing but if it wasn't PNCL doing the financing it would have been someone else.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
The ignorance of the post above clearly shows. Colgan got Qs *because* of Pinnacle money. Hard earned money off the backs of Pinnacle pilots. The Northwest bankruptcy convertible note of 191 million dollars. $20 million was used to buy Colgan, and the remainnig majority to buy the order of Q400s for Colgan. Right after that, we were told that our ALPA pilot proposal contract would bankrupt Pinnacle. Colgan would not be where it is today had it not been Pinnacle holdings.
The former you cannot reach a conclusion, the latter remains to be seen.
Why would you say that?
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Eh.. more like without PNCL another holding group owns colgan and it's Q's.
The Q's didn't come because Pncl bought us, but it was the holding company finances which allowed them to purchase them. It was this part of the contract (with cal) that Pncl paid for. They could have cared less about the EAS/ small market usairways stuff.
Why is everybody so worried about furloughs? The way 9l/9e staffing is, we need more pilots. If 9l (soon to be messaba) takes the next 15 Q's nobody is going to be on the street.
If you're an FO and your upgrade gets bumped a few months.. Tough. If I have to sit rsv for the next 5 years, that sucks. But I'm not going to bitch about it. Take what you can get and be happy, or find something else. If you don't like the way things are, talk with your feet, and leave.
CEWLGUY
Well-Known Member
Doubt it, Mesaba's scope was pretty tight. The truth is that all 3 airlines brought something to the table, and you can waste your breath arguing about how that's not true, but it is.
Just like most pilots at their respective airline, you greatly overvalue "your" contribution to this merger, and for you to advocate keeping our lists separate, and keeping the whipsaw is just nuts. (period)
Cherokee, you're going to give yourself a heart attack.
I know you're new to the profession, but for goodness sake, don't stroke out just yet, ok? Relax, mellow.
It's just like taking an automatic weapon to the range: Short, controlled bursts. Breath, squeeze off a few rounds, breath, squeeze off a few rounds. Methodical.
I know you're new to the profession, but for goodness sake, don't stroke out just yet, ok? Relax, mellow.
It's just like taking an automatic weapon to the range: Short, controlled bursts. Breath, squeeze off a few rounds, breath, squeeze off a few rounds. Methodical.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Also how you kill zombies.