SLI and furlough...

SpiceWeasel

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
Ok so I just found out that USW Airline Division Pinnacle FA's will not be integrating with Mesaba or Colgan. Mesaba FA's will be offered employment opportunities as new hires. I think this is pretty nuts...

However, a good point has been raised in discussing this... Why ARE we willing to negotiate an ISL with anything less favorable to Pinnacle pilots than a staple of Mesaba and Colgan... Flame away but... Word on the street is that the Saabs aren't going to find a home, and that means pilots on the street. So should Pinnacle pilots eat these furloughs? Acquisition or merger notwithstanding, how is *that* fair to us?

As an aside, I've always supported a fair integration, so before any emotional folks go tearing into me, relax.

Should they have fences that specify which pilots get furloughed so that it protects Pinnacle pilots from absorbing resultant overstaffing at Mesaba?
 
So you seem to be upset that the flight attendants could be essentially stapled to the pinnacle list but then pose the idea that it should be done the same way with the pilots?

Really?
 
JrsyGuy said:
So you seem to be upset that the flight attendants could be essentially stapled to the pinnacle list but then pose the idea that it should be done the same way with the pilots?
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ehem: "As an aside, I've always supported a fair integration, so before any emotional folks go tearing into me, relax."

Really?
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I'm not "proposing" the idea... I'm just wondering if, since we're NOT going to staple (since that's not right), are we going to have furlough protection for Pinnacle INC pilots???

BTW, good sources say that the Mesaba union was NOT going to remove the 2 for 1 / staple LOA that they used once (to our benefit), in the event of a merger.
 
Word on the street is - don't believe the word on the street.

Is there really a point to this post? I was hearing rumors of a 9E furlough just before this whole deal happened, So are you guys really *eating* a furlough? I read thread after thread about DCI killing off the 200's. If that happened, or happens then what?

Here are some more rumors for you :

American wants the Q400 to replace it's ATR flying -(AMR CKA)
Delta wants the Q400 for the extra seats/ lower fuel burn
United... whoops... we fly for them now :)

There are currently 3 Q400's sitting on the ground in YYZ...

Does any of this mean anything? nope. Why get people all worked up about something for which you have no real proof about? It's just not worth it. Like kicking a bee's nest, nothing good will come from it.
 
Well, we can only hope that the staffing is right, basically. Hopefully attrition takes care of any potential over staffing....

How right is it if as a result of an ISL we have to absorb "another company's" furloughs? I didn't buy Mesaba or Colgan, so why should I suffer if those companies are bleeding cash at time of purchase?

Ugh. Well, it'd be nice if we weren't in the dark.
 
cencal83406 said:
Ok so I just found out that USW Airline Division Pinnacle FA's will not be integrating with Mesaba or Colgan. Mesaba FA's will be offered employment opportunities as new hires. I think this is pretty nuts...

However, a good point has been raised in discussing this... Why ARE we willing to negotiate an ISL with anything less favorable to Pinnacle pilots than a staple of Mesaba and Colgan... Flame away but... Word on the street is that the Saabs aren't going to find a home, and that means pilots on the street. So should Pinnacle pilots eat these furloughs? Acquisition or merger notwithstanding, how is *that* fair to us?

As an aside, I've always supported a fair integration, so before any emotional folks go tearing into me, relax.

Should they have fences that specify which pilots get furloughed so that it protects Pinnacle pilots from absorbing resultant overstaffing at Mesaba?
Click to expand...

word on the street is that pinnacle is horribly understaffed and could use the ~150 pilots that are currently on the saab
 
cencal83406 said:
Well, we can only hope that the staffing is right, basically. Hopefully attrition takes care of any potential over staffing....

How right is it if as a result of an ISL we have to absorb "another company's" furloughs? I didn't buy Mesaba or Colgan, so why should I suffer if those companies are bleeding cash at time of purchase?

Ugh. Well, it'd be nice if we weren't in the dark.
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Mesaba was not bleeding cash. In fact, if you listen to the latest conference call we are well exceeding expectations revenue wise.
 
cencal83406 said:
Well, we can only hope that the staffing is right, basically. Hopefully attrition takes care of any potential over staffing....

How right is it if as a result of an ISL we have to absorb "another company's" furloughs? I didn't buy Mesaba or Colgan, so why should I suffer if those companies are bleeding cash at time of purchase?

Ugh. Well, it'd be nice if we weren't in the dark.
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We are one company now, and should think as one. As of right now all furloughs have been recalled I believe, so you are not absorbing another companies furloughs. Furloughs at this point will be due to the actions of PNCL management. Should they get furloughed because your company doesn't like their proper staffing model and decides to reduce their staffing levels to fall in line with the rest of the PNCL carriers?
 
cencal83406 said:
Should they have fences that specify which pilots get furloughed so that it protects Pinnacle pilots from absorbing resultant overstaffing at Mesaba?
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So if they park 50 seaters, you'd be fine with PNCL pilots being furloughed first right?
 
Not that I've ever had to go through one, but I've always felt seniority list integration should be about a 5 minute deal: Date of hire, but everyone maintains their current seat, position, and domicile. Going forward from that point, everything is as per normal. Positions and bases are awarded in seniority order, etc.
 
O&M said:
Not that I've ever had to go through one, but I've always felt seniority list integration should be about a 5 minute deal: Date of hire, but everyone maintains their current seat, position, and domicile. Going forward from that point, everything is as per normal. Positions and bases are awarded in seniority order, etc.
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Wait until you go through one, you won't want it to be like that.

First displacement the company needs, and they go tits up because of training costs.
 
cencal83406 said:
However, a good point has been raised in discussing this... Why ARE we willing to negotiate an ISL with anything less favorable to Pinnacle pilots than a staple of Mesaba and Colgan... Flame away but... Word on the street is that the Saabs aren't going to find a home, and that means pilots on the street. So should Pinnacle pilots eat these furloughs? Acquisition or merger notwithstanding, how is *that* fair to us?
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Better bring up those points to the mediator quickly! April is just around the corner! Maybe he has a facebook page we can get on and petition that he consider that in arbitration!

I don't know. Maybe we'll just let the process work itself out.

cencal83406 said:
Well, we can only hope that the staffing is right, basically. Hopefully attrition takes care of any potential over staffing....

How right is it if as a result of an ISL we have to absorb "another company's" furloughs? I didn't buy Mesaba or Colgan, so why should I suffer if those companies are bleeding cash at time of purchase?

Ugh. Well, it'd be nice if we weren't in the dark.
Click to expand...

Well if it makes you feel any better Mesaba wasn't bleeding cash at the time or now.
 
v1valarob said:
Wait until you go through one, you won't want it to be like that.

First displacement the company needs, and they go tits up because of training costs.
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No doubt, but just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it's not fair.
 
O&M said:
No doubt, but just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it's not fair.
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DOH across the board isn't fair either. In your scenario a super senior Colgan CA on the Saab who could hold a line on the Q400 as a CA, suddenly gets to keep his seat, but can only hold Q400 FO now, and that aircraft wasn't at any other airline except his own prior to any merging.
 
v1valarob said:
DOH across the board isn't fair either. In your scenario a super senior Colgan CA on the Saab who could hold a line on the Q400 as a CA, suddenly gets to keep his seat, but can only hold Q400 FO now, and that aircraft wasn't at any other airline except his own prior to any merging.
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Eh, DOH by itself my not be fair, but mixing in the benefits of the merger you are a part of may be. Up to someone else though. There are lots of ways to rationalize by piecing up the situation, and perhaps the arbitration will show you correct, however I'd be willing to bet relative on the ISL/SLI is out of the question.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Eh, DOH by itself my not be fair, but mixing in the benefits of the merger you are a part of may be. Up to someone else though. There are lots of ways to rationalize by piecing up the situation, and perhaps the arbitration will show you correct, however I'd be willing to bet relative on the ISL/SLI is out of the question.
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hmm. why is that?
 
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