SkyWest pilots - how do you conserve so much gas?!?

wheelsup

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
We're talking about fuel conservation in another forum and I ran your numbers:

Fuel Burn | Stage Length

349 gal/ hr | 479 mi
351 gal/ hr | 471 mi
342 gal/ hr | 493 mi
342 gal/ hr | 493 mi
313 gal/ hr | 491 mi
293 gal/ hr | 491 mi
252 gal/ hr | 496 mi
Click to expand...

Fuel burn has been DROPPING LIKE A ROCK over the past year while your stage length has remained the same. How are you guys doing it? What are your profiles? Our company still 2x engine taxis, that might be part of it, but I have to say I'm impressed with the results. You and ASA both had similar results, all owned by SkyWest Inc.
 
I ALWAYS single engine taxi. Minimum thrust usage on taxi, i.e. thrust mgmt, use your momentum to carry you. Minimum APU usage unless needed for hot wx. Always shutting down the left engine 3 minutes after landing, unless we're in a tight alley way and can't.

I used to not care. but recently, I have been making a very valiant effort to conserve gas. No more curising at .80 for no reason. No descents until absolutely necassary.

I adhere to the climb profile when not in our hubs. 200 knots till 10K, then 250/.70 in the CR2, and 250/.74 in the CR7/CR9. seems to be working well. I notice that 3/4 legs are below avg fuel burn.

BTW- why did you convert our fuel burn to gal/hr? Its listed as total fuel burned on avg for that leg in lbs. Just curious.
 
I'm not sure where the numbers for # are, but the BTS.gov statistics uses gal/hr. I didn't convert anything.
 
Single engine taxi at ATL really helps, limited APU use at 'conservation stations' helps a bit as does a 4 degree decent policy when ATC allows it. We also don't get premium pay for being early so everyone is throttling back now while still trying to make the on-time numbers.
 
This was an interesting table from last week's (May 5, 2008) Aviation Leak. It's not just fuel, but still ... interesting.


Code: 
Operating Costs Of Small Regional Jets
                 Total Block Hour   |     Aircraft   | Biggest Expense
                  Operating Cost    |     in Fleet   | (% of Block
              12 Months | 12 Months |                |  Hour Cost)
                Ended   |   Ended   |                |
                Sept.   |   Sept.   |  Sept. | Sept. | 12 Months Ended
                2007    |   2006    |  2007  | 2006  |   Sept. 2007
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ERJ 135
========
American Eagle  $1,438      $1,441      36      38     Fuel – 54.45%
ExpressJet      $1,133      $1,082      30      30     Aircraft Cost – 32.74%

ERJ 145
========
ExpressJet      $1,336      $1,139      246     242     Aircraft Cost – 31.43%
American Eagle  $1,392      $1,373      93      102     Fuel – 44.32%
TransStates     $1,545      $1,674      46      46      Fuel – 41.94%
Mesa               —        $2,232      —       25      —

CRJ100/200*
========
Pinnacle        $800        $1,260      134     127     Aircraft Cost – 48%
SkyWest         $1,516      $1,606      120     123     Fuel – 44.52%
ASA             $1,731      $1,213      110     106     Fuel – 48.06%
Comair          $1,751      $1,795      117     126     Fuel – 40.03%
Air Wisconsin   $1,705      $1,820      70      70      Fuel – 43.75%
Mesa            $2,095      $2,020      40      53      Fuel – 34.41%
PSA             $883           —        26      —       Aircraft Cost – 55.03%
Mesaba          $2,168      $1,054      1       2       Crew Cost – 49.35%

Reflects most recent data available
* 2006 data for CRJ aircraft is for the -200ER model
Sources: Oliver Wyman, Carrier Form 41 Reports
 
mrivc211 said:
I ALWAYS single engine taxi. Minimum thrust usage on taxi, i.e. thrust mgmt, use your momentum to carry you. Minimum APU usage unless needed for hot wx. Always shutting down the left engine 3 minutes after landing, unless we're in a tight alley way and can't.

I used to not care. but recently, I have been making a very valiant effort to conserve gas. No more curising at .80 for no reason. No descents until absolutely necassary.

I adhere to the climb profile when not in our hubs. 200 knots till 10K, then 250/.70 in the CR2, and 250/.74 in the CR7/CR9. seems to be working well. I notice that 3/4 legs are below avg fuel burn.

BTW- why did you convert our fuel burn to gal/hr? Its listed as total fuel burned on avg for that leg in lbs. Just curious.
Click to expand...

Yep, that is how we do it. We have done an excellent job at educating our pilots about the program and I believe we are ahead of the curve on fuel conservation. It helps that we were one of the first with UAL to develop the fuel conservation program, so it has been around awhile.

My motivation to the follow the program is mainly my own personal tree-huggin' reasons, but hey everybody wins so no worries. I do enjoy the looong idle descents when it works out. Fun to plan it just right and add power only when getting close to the destination airport. :)
 
Okay, I gotta know how they go that stat. $800/block hour is PCL's cost for 2007, and our biggest expense is aircraft cost. Wait, not PILOT PAY!???!!! We're only $83 less than PSA, but we're $716 cheaper than the next guy (Skywest), and they say they can't afford indsutry average now. Nevermind the fact that we're a whopping $1,368 CHEAPER than Mesaba per block hour, and crew cost IS their biggest factor.....

Sorry, I just really hate being lied to on a daily basis by my own management....
 
kellwolf said:
Okay, I gotta know how they go that stat. $800/block hour is PCL's cost for 2007, and our biggest expense is aircraft cost. Wait, not PILOT PAY!???!!!
Click to expand...

SoCalAprch said:
Why is Mesa the most expensive?
Click to expand...

Good questions.

I did some looking at the most recent 10-Ks filed by some operators, and I think AviationWeek's numbers are ########. Right in the 2007 10-K for Pinnacle there's a line that says "Operating cost per block hour: $1,300" (revenue per was $1392 :D).

Shenanigans! unless there's some sort of one-time payout that AW's accounting for.

I'm looking around for additional info from the other operators' 10-Ks for 2007 numbers ... it's fun!


For PCL, the cost breakdown was:
Code: 
Operating expenses per block hour:		
    Salaries, wages and benefits   $359  27.6%
    Aircraft fuel(1)               $68    5.2%
    Equipment Costs                $503  38.6%
       Aircraft MRO                $154┤
       Aircraft rentals            $245┤
       Other rental/landing fees   $104┘
    Ground handling services       $173  13.3%
    Depreciation and amortization  $16    1.2%
    Commissions/Pax-rel expenses   $43    3.3%
    Other                          $140  10.8%
 
Minuteman said:
Good questions.

I did some looking at the most recent 10-Ks filed by some operators, and I think AviationWeek's numbers are ########. Right in the 2007 10-K for Pinnacle there's a line that says "Operating cost per block hour: $1,300" (revenue per was $1392 :D).

Shenanigans! unless there's some sort of one-time payout that AW's accounting for.

I'm looking around for additional info from the other operators' 10-Ks for 2007 numbers ... it's fun!


For PCL, the cost breakdown was:
Code: 
Operating expenses per block hour:		
    Salaries, wages and benefits   $359  27.6%
    Aircraft fuel(1)               $68    5.2%
    Equipment Costs                $503  38.6%
       Aircraft MRO                $154┤
       Aircraft rentals            $245┤
       Other rental/landing fees   $104┘
    Ground handling services       $173  13.3%
    Depreciation and amortization  $16    1.2%
    Commissions/Pax-rel expenses   $43    3.3%
    Other                          $140  10.8%
Click to expand...


A one time pay out may be a possibility. It also could be associated with how our deal with NWA is structured. A LOT of our costs are passed right along to them. The way it's worded is as long as the cost is "in parity" with other operators, NWA pays the cost. I would take that to mean that if our pilot rates are "industry average," then that would be in parity with other operators, therefore able to be passed along to NWA. Which leaves the question of....why do we have such low pay rates???!?

And I just noticed that there's $68 for aircraft fuel per block hour. Umm....we don't buy fuel. NWA does. How is that associated with our costs? I'm smelling some burnt books somewhere.
 
kellwolf said:
And I just noticed that there's $68 for aircraft fuel per block hour. Umm....we don't buy fuel. NWA does. How is that associated with our costs? I'm smelling some burnt books somewhere.
Click to expand...

I'm probably just mangling things. Here's my source [PCL 2007 10-K, Selected Financial Statements]

Footnote (1) on fuel says "As discussed in “Pinnacle’s Agreements with Major Airlines” in Item 1. Business[:] certain significant expenses such as fuel and aircraft rentals are eliminated or reduced under the ASA."

I thought maybe that was fuel used for flights not qualifying for "block hour payments," but there's wording that says, "These payments are designed to cover all of our expenses incurred with respect to the ASA that are not covered by the reimbursement payments, including overhead costs." I'd assume "overhead costs" would include repositioning flights, etc.

<pilot-lawyer-accountant activate! :rolleyes: :D>
 
Overhead costs might also include things like training, facilities rental for HQ, support staff, etc. One of the things PCL prided themselves on was the fact that our overhead is low. When I was hired, we had a modest building with small offices, one person in the pass bureau and two people handling benefits. Now, they've got the whole building, split offices up so Corporate and Inc can have separate offices, but the people in charge of Corp are also in charge of Inc....so, I guess they have two offices now. So much for keeping the overhead low....but we still just have one person in the pass bureau and two people in benefits. :)

Eh, I'm side tracking the thread. I can go on all day about how shady and how our management seldom leaves the ivory tower they've built for themselves....

Besides, Merit and Higney are WAY better suited to this kind of analysis than I am.
 
kellwolf said:
Okay, I gotta know how they go that stat. $800/block hour is PCL's cost for 2007, and our biggest expense is aircraft cost. Wait, not PILOT PAY!???!!! We're only $83 less than PSA, but we're $716 cheaper than the next guy (Skywest), and they say they can't afford indsutry average now. Nevermind the fact that we're a whopping $1,368 CHEAPER than Mesaba per block hour, and crew cost IS their biggest factor.....

Sorry, I just really hate being lied to on a daily basis by my own management....
Click to expand...

Several factors for that.

1 cr2 during the sham bankruptcy not as cost effective to operate.

The 10 most senior CA's and FO's were on it so there was like $140 hr.

The numbers for XJ are inflated because of the one plane. Those are post rj85 and pre cr9 numbers. Plus I can't imagine it was cost effective to have 1 airplane of one type for 2 years.
 
mrivc211 said:
I ALWAYS single engine taxi. Minimum thrust usage on taxi, i.e. thrust mgmt, use your momentum to carry you. Minimum APU usage unless needed for hot wx. Always shutting down the left engine 3 minutes after landing, unless we're in a tight alley way and can't.

I used to not care. but recently, I have been making a very valiant effort to conserve gas. No more curising at .80 for no reason. No descents until absolutely necassary.

I adhere to the climb profile when not in our hubs. 200 knots till 10K, then 250/.70 in the CR2, and 250/.74 in the CR7/CR9. seems to be working well. I notice that 3/4 legs are below avg fuel burn.

BTW- why did you convert our fuel burn to gal/hr? Its listed as total fuel burned on avg for that leg in lbs. Just curious.
Click to expand...


Reading that post brings a tear to my eye. . . I feel like a proud papa/uncle/mentor.

I'm proud of ya, boy!

. . . now about that cursing. . .:nana2:
 
LOL, yeah, I guess you could say I've come full circle eh? And I haven't cursed in well........I can't lie! It's ORD, how can you fly in n out of ORD and not curse? Hawaii turns getting old for ya.....ay?
 
How do you define stage length? Is it the flight plan route with taxi burn factored in?

I've been actually grappling with this stuff myself in my daily flying. I've experimented with slow climbs/high airspeed, and fast climbs and low airspeed to get higher faster, but both seem to yield the same burns, generally.
 
mrivc211 said:
LOL, yeah, I guess you could say I've come full circle eh? And I haven't cursed in well........I can't lie! It's ORD, how can you fly in n out of ORD and not curse? Hawaii turns getting old for ya.....ay?
Click to expand...

:p I'm off to Lihue today. . . agai-un. . .
 
I don't know of an official definition of "stage length" but I would guess it is the average distance from departure to destination on all of their routes. I'm not sure what you're talking about with taxi fuel, because stage length is a distance, not a fuel burn.
 
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