Single pilot jets

mshunter said:
Owner's are bean counters more often than not though, unfortunately. I watched a friend ask for a second pilot out of a job a few years back.

"We need another pilot. This isn't safe."

"You're right, we need another pilot. Meet your replacement. He thinks it's safe."
Click to expand...

I can see the problem there, your friend may have made the airplane owner feel that he was being treated in an adversarial manner as opposed to being educated on the merits of having a second pilot.
Yes, there will be some out there that will be so wound up on dollars that they'll never accept the idea of a second pilot, quite possibly they can't truly afford the airplane to begin with, or they're just THAT guy and every single thing will be an issue with them if they think they can save a penny ( that gets really old after a while).
If a person takes the time to educate the airplane owner on the true " value " of a second pilot ( safety, familiarity with the crew and the knowledge that they can count on both, all three, four, etc... to look out for their financial interests as well as safety, more scheduling flexibility, etc... )
Lets face it here, if the aircraft owner in question can truly afford the airplane then they can afford the second pilot, they're probably enjoying their life and would like to make every reasonable effort to continue doing so, and putting one pilot in a position of trying to make the schedule happen for them all the time is seriously jeopardizing their own safety ( they may just be so wrapped up in their own thoughts that they don't realize it ).
They drive nice cars, not just cheap old beaters so they see the value in spending more money if they feel it benefits them.
They live in nice neighborhoods, and have security systems in their homes on top of that, so they've determined it is worth the expense.
When they need something in life they don't look for the cheapest solution, they look for what they think is the best value, after all.... it's for themselves and they feel they deserve it!
Many times the things they want or have are a result of " keeping up with the Jones's ", maybe said single pilot airplane owner looks to the super mid, and large cabin business jet owners and is jealous that they have what he/she can't afford, but doesn't realize the beautiful fact that they can have some of the extra benefits of that larger airplane in the one they already own!
Single pilot certified airplanes are just that, certified that under minimum standards to be operated single pilot, this does not make it a good idea in all circumstances and by all operators.
Marketing departments do a good job of selling the idea of cost savings, it's not their job to help each airplane owner understand the expectations of their own flight departments, that is between them, the members of their flight departments, and any outside counsel ( independent consultant, counseling from another flight department and in some cases airplane owner that has successfully dealt with the subject ".
Yes, a single pilot airplane staffed by one pilot may realistically be acceptable for some departments, but not all, and if a pilot is not able to help them see the value of another crewmember when they feel it is warranted then they should find a job that they are more comfortable with.
You put the time, effort, and in many cases money in to getting where you are in this industry, you own your certificates, integrity, and life, not someone that pays you to fly their airplane.

In summary, as pilots we should strive to do what is right by ourselves, and by our employers...it's not always easy, but it is what it is.
:)
 
Beep said:
I can see the problem there, your friend may have made the airplane owner feel that he was being treated in an adversarial manner as opposed to being educated on the merits of having a second pilot.
Yes, there will be some out there that will be so wound up on dollars that they'll never accept the idea of a second pilot, quite possibly they can't truly afford the airplane to begin with, or they're just THAT guy and every single thing will be an issue with them if they think they can save a penny ( that gets really old after a while).
If a person takes the time to educate the airplane owner on the true " value " of a second pilot ( safety, familiarity with the crew and the knowledge that they can count on both, all three, four, etc... to look out for their financial interests as well as safety, more scheduling flexibility, etc... )
Lets face it here, if the aircraft owner in question can truly afford the airplane then they can afford the second pilot, they're probably enjoying their life and would like to make every reasonable effort to continue doing so, and putting one pilot in a position of trying to make the schedule happen for them all the time is seriously jeopardizing their own safety ( they may just be so wrapped up in their own thoughts that they don't realize it ).
They drive nice cars, not just cheap old beaters so they see the value in spending more money if they feel it benefits them.
They live in nice neighborhoods, and have security systems in their homes on top of that, so they've determined it is worth the expense.
When they need something in life they don't look for the cheapest solution, they look for what they think is the best value, after all.... it's for themselves and they feel they deserve it!
Many times the things they want or have are a result of " keeping up with the Jones's ", maybe said single pilot airplane owner looks to the super mid, and large cabin business jet owners and is jealous that they have what he/she can't afford, but doesn't realize the beautiful fact that they can have some of the extra benefits of that larger airplane in the one they already own!
Single pilot certified airplanes are just that, certified that under minimum standards to be operated single pilot, this does not make it a good idea in all circumstances and by all operators.
Marketing departments do a good job of selling the idea of cost savings, it's not their job to help each airplane owner understand the expectations of their own flight departments, that is between them, the members of their flight departments, and any outside counsel ( independent consultant, counseling from another flight department and in some cases airplane owner that has successfully dealt with the subject ".
Yes, a single pilot airplane staffed by one pilot may realistically be acceptable for some departments, but not all, and if a pilot is not able to help them see the value of another crewmember when they feel it is warranted then they should find a job that they are more comfortable with.
You put the time, effort, and in many cases money in to getting where you are in this industry, you own your certificates, integrity, and life, not someone that pays you to fly their airplane.

In summary, as pilots we should strive to do what is right by ourselves, and by our employers...it's not always easy, but it is what it is.
:)
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up, perfectly.
 
averettpilot said:
To be fair, I see two crew members there ;)
Click to expand...

...and only one of them is a pilot. It isn't like having a flight engineer who happens to be an ATP and has all of the flying experience needed.

WSOs are highly skilled, highly valuable crewmembers, but it doesn't function at all like a multi pilot aircraft.
 
Last edited:
averettpilot said:
It's a Phenom 100. Generally speaking, it's not a high workload aircraft by any means, as I'm sure all who have flown it can attest. I have 3300 hours 3150 of which is single pilot in quite a few different capacity, single pilot freight being one of them, so I know that this aircraft compared to others is quite easy. Probably just the missions I carry out from time to time. 3 am departure to a max range destination sometime getting back after midnight "same" day.

I do the job well, I don't really have a problem SP jet in general, but there are moments where I think to myself "gee this is getting pretty busy up here and I could easily screw something up if I don't bring my A game." All while transporting some important people. I guess my whole half asleep thought pattern was why would the people in the back want to have just one person up front. I have 150 hours of flying in a crew and that is so much more preferable for me. We were flying the Phenom as a crew and the all around operation was much more efficient with division of labor in all aspects, preflight, flight, and postflight. I'm not saying SP isn't safe, if it wasn't I probably wouldn't do it. Just think it's safER with two up front. I'm happy to be proven wrong, and I appreciate the thoughts out there.

Fly safe people.
Click to expand...
Don't know who your Pax are. Many companies have insurance policies that require two pilot crews for flights. Some individuals have similar policies and don't even know it. No certainty, but worth checking.
 
Hacker15e said:
...and only one of them is a pilot. It isn't like having a flight engineer who happens to be an ATP and has all of the flying experience needed.

WSOs are highly skilled, highly valuable crewmembers, but it doesn't function at all like a multi pilot aircraft.
Click to expand...
Well, that is why I said crew member :). I don't presume to have the foggiest idea as to what goes in to flying a fighter jet, but I would think having them there makes your job more efficient. Maybe not safer, because you have people shooting at you, but there's the difference between military and civilian. I'm not looking to make a comparison between the two. You guys are awesome, but I would assume there is a vast difference in mission objectives and risk assessment.

My company did a risk assessment audit for our operations, and my operation is riskier right off the bat just by being single pilot in comparison to the crewed jets.
 
Crop Duster said:
Don't know who your Pax are. Many companies have insurance policies that require two pilot crews for flights. Some individuals have similar policies and don't even know it. No certainty, but worth checking.
Click to expand...
I haven't checked but I imagine they can fly single pilot under their insurance. I mainly fly the owner and his family, but I work for an aircraft management company that can charter the aircraft.
 
Hacker15e said:
I rather enjoyed the high-workload of the single-pilot jet. Not just in the weather, but when things were getting shot back at us, too.
osw_02_small.jpg
Click to expand...
Did you fly single seat Eagles at any time? It is always interesting to hear single seat turn their nose at two-seatters and vice versa. Wouldn't agree that some personalities lend themselves better to a single seat cockpit
 
averettpilot said:
Well, that is why I said crew member :). I don't presume to have the foggiest idea as to what goes in to flying a fighter jet, but I would think having them there makes your job more efficient.
Click to expand...

Oh, they certainly do, yes.

Vector said:
Did you fly single seat Eagles at any time? It is always interesting to hear single seat turn their nose at two-seatters and vice versa. Wouldn't agree that some personalities lend themselves better to a single seat cockpit
Click to expand...

I did not, no. You're right many/most single seat guys don't know what it is like to fly with a WSO, so it is funny to hear some of their critiques of it. They seem to think that it is like flying with another pilot, and most of them have only experienced that while a student or an instructor in the training environment.

It is both a tremendous force multiplier, but simultaneously a huge Achilles' heel, and I've experienced both ends of the spectrum...but the vast, vast majority of the time the division of duties and additional eyes/ears/brain/hands results in more lethality.
 
Hacker15e said:
I did not, no. You're right many/most single seat guys don't know what it is like to fly with a WSO, so it is funny to hear some of their critiques of it. They seem to think that it is like flying with another pilot, and most of them have only experienced that while a student or an instructor in the training environment.

It is both a tremendous force multiplier, but simultaneously a huge Achilles' heel, and I've experienced both ends of the spectrum...but the vast, vast majority of the time the division of duties and additional eyes/ears/brain/hands results in more lethality.
Click to expand...

The 117 really did need a WSO. The workload of an F-111F, minus the low level part, on the shoulders of a single pilot. Too much heads-in time working systems, and not enough heads out time watching where the jet is going at .99M.
 
MikeD said:
The 117 really did need a WSO. The workload of an F-111F, minus the low level part, on the shoulders of a single pilot. Too much heads-in time working systems, and not enough heads out time watching where the jet is going at .99M.
Click to expand...

Stinkbug driver: WSO with landing currency. :)
 
Problem is, 99.9% of the time in a true single pilot airplane, trying to turn it into a crew environment usually results in the two pilots tripping over each other unless you proceduralize and script the h.e.2x hockey sticks out of everything.
 
Hacker15e said:
Stinkbug driver: WSO with landing currency. :)
Click to expand...

There was a comical joke thing they did to a guy in my squadron come assignment time. Wing leadership in cahoots with AFPC telling him that since he was quite good at the 117, that they were using him to fill a 12F position due to a shortage in the -15E community.
 
mshunter said:
Owner's are bean counters more often than not though, unfortunately. I watched a friend ask for a second pilot out of a job a few years back.

"We need another pilot. This isn't safe."

"You're right, we need another pilot. Meet your replacement. He thinks it's safe."
Click to expand...
With that kind of mgmt, it was for the better he got canned. Todays job market is in the pilots favor by far. Those old days of us being on our knees is gone.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Problem is, 99.9% of the time in a true single pilot airplane, trying to turn it into a crew environment usually results in the two pilots tripping over each other unless you proceduralize and script the h.e.2x hockey sticks out of everything.
Click to expand...
I disagree as this has not been my experience. Granted, I've only flown with one other person in the Phenom, but we defined our roles and communicated effectively. SOPs aren't a bad thing either.

I guess you'd also have to define a "true single pilot aircraft." I get your point if we're talking about a Caravan or something like that.
 
How many passengers do you typically carry? With roughly 1600 pounds of payload is a second crew member a viable option given your normal mission?
 
milleR said:
How many passengers do you typically carry? With roughly 1600 pounds of payload is a second crew member a viable option given your normal mission?
Click to expand...
Given a normal mission of 2-3 pax it is a viable option. We did for 6 months before the other pilot left. We would alternate trips requiring a single pilot. It worked really well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top